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The rise of never-ending job interviews

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Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#631
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny is that I specifically remember a conference where some library that a google employee wrote was terrible. The one google developer talking about it, disavowed any responsibility of it. Whatever metrics that google is using in their interviews have probably become worthless in the past decade as people game the system.

In my startup I interviewed a 48 years old senior Java programmer with excellent resume, who took 1hr to write a String.contains(), it only worked for the requested 4 letters, didn’t work if a letter was repeated twice, and didn’t work with Chinese characters. At least it had the JUnit. I asked an employee to do it too and he made his code pass the JUnit in 6 minutes. The candidate hated the interview, claiming it wa…

What was the goal of the question? Why did you want the person to implement a contains method? Did you really want to verify they understood String implementation in Java?

And if the candidate was able to do this in 6 minutes, what would you have thought? "Great, let's hire"?

In my humble opinion, the question is a waste of time either way. You'll get much further trying to probe what the candidate does know rather than randomly creating an exercise that you think they "should be able to do if woken up in the middle of the night". People forget how stressful interviews are and how easy it is to assume shared context.

The fact that your employee was able to do the test might be indicative of the fact that you share context with the employee that you did not share with the candidate, thus confirming your bias.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#632

On my team, I inherited an interview process with 7 steps. It's a long one for sure, and it's not a process I can change. But as a hiring manager I mitigate issues brought up in this article by doing a few really easy things: 1. On my first chat with a candidate, I layout the entire interview process. I acknowledge that it is long and I preemptively thank them for going through the process and say that we value their…

I'd really appreciate a letter with feedback after a lengthy interviewing process, I think that's really valuable.

However, I don't think I'd value it after more than 3 interviews. Candidates are applying after work hours and there's a time / energy limit to how many processes they can take at a time. After a given point, you're wasting not hours but possibly months of their life.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#633

My one and only Google interview went this way years ago. Each round they'd send me more books to study, which frankly I couldn't be bothered to read given the circumstances. My experience ended when an interviewer in round 3 or 4 asked me an obviously scripted question. I answered sarcastically, he got peeved, and I never heard from them again. I'm not claiming I'm Google caliber, whatever that means. Obviously I'm…

it is not optimal, but there is no alternative. The interviews should show 1) you want the job, i.e. you put some effort; 2) you can learn, i.e. those ridiculous questions; 3) team fit, i.e. you like them, and they like you. Programmer interviews are the only thing people can do in a reasonable timeframe. As programmers we always learn, we learn what we need to learn to do the job, there is no reason to reject someon…

>2) you can learn, i.e. those ridiculous questions;

So why do I have to re-prove this at every new job? It's not obvious enough I can learn if I've learned a programming language or framework in the past? Do companies have some brilliant insight into neuroscience where they know people become incapable of learning at some point?

Any 2/4-year degree should also answer that question as well. Lots of things can answer that question. Ridiculous questions are about the laziest way to test someone for it.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#634
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I'm pretty sure FAANG hiring is just a random walk. Every now again someone happens to have looked at all the questions they ask recently for that particular interview cycle (or avoid the trap ones like that) and that person gets hired (and then put on the ad targeting team or whatever).

It may be a random walk but I think the goal is to convince whoever gets hired that they’re special and talented and elite members of their discipline.

Oh you mean a real rockstar? a code ninja?

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#635

My one and only Google interview went this way years ago. Each round they'd send me more books to study, which frankly I couldn't be bothered to read given the circumstances. My experience ended when an interviewer in round 3 or 4 asked me an obviously scripted question. I answered sarcastically, he got peeved, and I never heard from them again. I'm not claiming I'm Google caliber, whatever that means. Obviously I'm…

> The interviewer told me very matter of factly that it was in fact, the filename. which is not even true in some file systems that can inline data directly into the inode, if the data is small enough. for the downvoter(s): > If the data of a file fits in the space allocated for pointers to the data, this space can conveniently be used. For example, ext2 and its successors store the data of symlinks (typically file n…

I've never seen "the file name" used to describe "name of a symlink".

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point I'm pretty sure FAANG hiring is just a random walk. Every now again someone happens to have looked at all the questions they ask recently for that particular interview cycle (or avoid the trap ones like that) and that person gets hired (and then put on the ad targeting team or whatever). This might actually be part of the retention strategy. If everyone who works at FAANG knows that they're somewhat l…

I'll just +1 this as a datapoint. I am not looking externally until I'm sure I'm done at AWS. I've done 80+ interviews here, and I'm consistently amazed by what drives people to say "The candidate wasn't up to the coding bar". As far as I can tell, you are almost never up to the coding bar. I think we interview so many people just to remind ourselves that if we leave, we aren't getting back in. Just to head off the "…

You don’t need to fight tooth and nail for change. Expressing dissent or disagreement with the status quo is a good start.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cruel and inhuman, but if you're Google, there's some cold rationality behind this. I think the process goes for them like this: There's 100 people applying for any given position, 10 of which might be good hires. It's reasonable from their point of view to subject the interviewees to a process that culls 83 bad ones, and 7 good ones so that only 10 people need to be interviewed by expensive on-staff engineers,…

It's definitely questionable whether the process retains many good engineers. That said, I suppose it works as long as it culls more bad engineers than good engineers.

> I suppose it works as long as it culls more bad engineers than good engineers.

That's a pretty low bar. A Fizzbuzz test culls more bad engineers than good ones.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#638

My one and only Google interview went this way years ago. Each round they'd send me more books to study, which frankly I couldn't be bothered to read given the circumstances. My experience ended when an interviewer in round 3 or 4 asked me an obviously scripted question. I answered sarcastically, he got peeved, and I never heard from them again. I'm not claiming I'm Google caliber, whatever that means. Obviously I'm…

Amazon pulls something similar with their LP's. I spent more time working with the recruiter and working GP's into my stories/experience than I did actually interviewing. What an incredible waste of time.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#639
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similarly bad Google experience that I've talked about before[0] but will copy here: I was asked to do a task that eventually boiled down to a topological sort, and I thought the question consisted of recognizing that the answer was a topological sort and moving on because it was over the phone. However, that was not the case. The interviewer wanted me to code it all out over Google Docs, but I didn't remembe…

At this point I'm pretty sure FAANG hiring is just a random walk. Every now again someone happens to have looked at all the questions they ask recently for that particular interview cycle (or avoid the trap ones like that) and that person gets hired (and then put on the ad targeting team or whatever).

I interviewed 100s of candidates and there was this one guy that I would pair up with and he never said yes. I’ll never forget one candidate absolutely nailed it and his retort was “no, she clearly memorized the answers” so yeah, don’t take it personally.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just an invitation to discuss curves of constant width, like the Reuleaux triangle, that has indeed been made into a man-hole cover.

Lots of man-hole covers are rectangular though. Turns out it isn't very important at all to have manhole covers that don't fall in. They are quite heavy and don't roll around on their own, so having them fall somewhere really is of minor concern.

Hand-Rolling is a good reason to make them round.
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