I do wonder whether FBI will hunt those reverse and software engineers behind those tools
I do wonder how many of them are in this comment chain or previous big thread about Pegasus
Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
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Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
#32Do the timings of this increased scrutiny have anything to do with the current conflict with Palestine?
I know that this is probably an innocent comment on your part, but the wording of "with Palestine" implies that there are two places in a fight, one called Israel, the other called Palestine. This is a simplified explanation of why this label is not correct. Palestinians are in fact three distinct groups of people who all self-identify the same way. There are the group of people who are Israeli citizens. They used to…
> Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization
Canada, the European Union, Israel, Japan and the United States have designated Hamas as a terrorist organization. Australia, New Zealand, Paraguay and the United Kingdom have designated only its military wing as a terrorist organization. It is not considered a terrorist organization by Brazil, China, Egypt, Iran, Norway, Qatar, Russia, Syria and Turkey. In December 2018, the United Nations General Assembly rejected a U.S. resolution condemning Hamas as a terrorist organization.
Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
#33What I find funny is this: "Our clients only use the software against terrorists and criminals, so it can't be used the wrong way" "We made sure that it doesn't work against US phone numbers". That is straight out of "A Few Good Men": If Colonel Jessup ordered the soldier should not be touched, and soldiers follow orders, why was the victim scheduled for a plane ride off the base?
"Our clients only use the software against terrorists and criminals" => So this means that French PM Macron is a terrorist or criminal - for somebody who built this software...
Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
#34Do the timings of this increased scrutiny have anything to do with the current conflict with Palestine?
I know that this is probably an innocent comment on your part, but the wording of "with Palestine" implies that there are two places in a fight, one called Israel, the other called Palestine. This is a simplified explanation of why this label is not correct. Palestinians are in fact three distinct groups of people who all self-identify the same way. There are the group of people who are Israeli citizens. They used to…
Good condensation. Aside from that, to the parent, it has nothing to do with the recent hostilities in Gaza and the West Bank. The leak of phone numbers from NSO to the press happened in 2020.
Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
#35I do wonder whether FBI will hunt those reverse and software engineers behind those tools I do wonder how many of them are in this comment chain or previous big thread about Pegasus
It's an Israeli company, how exactly is the FBI going to hunt down their engineers?
Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know that this is probably an innocent comment on your part, but the wording of "with Palestine" implies that there are two places in a fight, one called Israel, the other called Palestine. This is a simplified explanation of why this label is not correct. Palestinians are in fact three distinct groups of people who all self-identify the same way. There are the group of people who are Israeli citizens. They used to…
> Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization Canada, the European Union, Israel, Japan and the United States have designated Hamas as a terrorist organization. Australia, New Zealand, Paraguay and the United Kingdom have designated only its military wing as a terrorist organization. It is not considered a terrorist organization by Brazil, China, Egypt, Iran, Norway, Qatar, Russia, Syria and Turkey. I…
And who could deny the benevolent intentions of Turkey, Syria, Iran, Egypt, China, Qatar and Russia? (I have no idea what the Norwegians are thinking).
Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know that this is probably an innocent comment on your part, but the wording of "with Palestine" implies that there are two places in a fight, one called Israel, the other called Palestine. This is a simplified explanation of why this label is not correct. Palestinians are in fact three distinct groups of people who all self-identify the same way. There are the group of people who are Israeli citizens. They used to…
> Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization Canada, the European Union, Israel, Japan and the United States have designated Hamas as a terrorist organization. Australia, New Zealand, Paraguay and the United Kingdom have designated only its military wing as a terrorist organization. It is not considered a terrorist organization by Brazil, China, Egypt, Iran, Norway, Qatar, Russia, Syria and Turkey. I…
They are religious extremists who believe that the entire land should be free of anyone whose religious beliefs do not match theirs and they don't mind killing innocent people, including their own people- women, children, etc. to further that goal.
The fact that some countries such as Russia and Turkey won't label them as terrorists doesn't change their beliefs, nor does it change how dangerous they are not only to Israel, but to their own people. They take the "long view" that if they need to sacrifice a few dozen, hundred or thousand of their own people to achieve their goal, even if it takes centuries, they're willing to do that.
It hurts not only Israel, but the people of the Gaza strip as well.
I don't want to split hairs about who calls labels them what. As I said, my explanation is simplified.
Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
#38Do the timings of this increased scrutiny have anything to do with the current conflict with Palestine?
I think there's always been scrutiny. It's been clear for a long time that Israel has very sophisticated IT security/intelligence capabilities and that in addition to using them for it's direct national security and military goals, these capabilities have been commercialised.
The ugly truth is that offering these capabilities to whoever will pay for them is a good business to be in. In addition to getting paid for it, Israel also gets access to all the intelligence gathered by their services for these clients. It's a win-win for them.
The only way to stop them doing this would be to make the costs of these activities greater than the benefits. I'm not sure how that can be done.
Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Then why it is sold to oppressive regimes to spy on people and crush activists? No, it is done for profit and profit only and it is our duty to condemn lack of government control in that sector.
The answer is very simple: because these capabilities exist in Israel. Cybersecurity is rampant in the Israeli security apparatus, and spawns both offensive and defensive companies. NSO, Cellebrite and others are simply the flip side of companies like Checkpoint ($16bn), SentinelOne ($13bn) and Imperva and countless others.
As you get released from military duty as a 20-something developer with world class cybersecurity skills, you either go offensive or defensive (and we all know which one is more exciting and possibly better paying).
It's not surprising that an industry develops around skilled workforce. Happens all the time with companies around universities.
Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal
#40What I find funny is this: "Our clients only use the software against terrorists and criminals, so it can't be used the wrong way" "We made sure that it doesn't work against US phone numbers". That is straight out of "A Few Good Men": If Colonel Jessup ordered the soldier should not be touched, and soldiers follow orders, why was the victim scheduled for a plane ride off the base?
"Our clients only use the software against terrorists and criminals" => So this means that French PM Macron is a terrorist or criminal - for somebody who built this software...
Given he wasted millions years of living from the population by locking them down, heavily damaged the economy by doing so and he's now discriminating the population around a medical variable, calling him a criminal isn't that far-fetched. And before you jump on me with "it was necessary", no it wasn't, as shown by Japan, Korea and Taiwan way of dealing with the pandemic. (He also sold national strategic interests to foreign powers)