Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning • Hacker News Board

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#71

Post by happosai » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:12 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #53

reader_mode wrote: post #40

I feel like investing in market pathologies has become too common and modern democratic governments are far too slow at doing there roles and curbing such behaviour. Bitcoin is the obvious example of something that should have been banned years ago (and all proof of work crypto), but there are so many examples coming up daily, if there was ever any faith in institutions it's eroding quickly, and once you remove that…

> Bitcoin is the obvious example of something that should have been banned years ago (and all proof of work crypto) not that i would invest in bitcoins (or any crypto), but i don't see it as an obvious ban. The only reason i can deduce from your "obviousness" comment is that proof of works "wastes" energy. But then it is hypocritical to argue this when other modern conveniences also "waste" energy, and yet you don't…

If the problem is co2 emissions, banning is not really the solution. The solution is co2 cap-and-trade, with a yearly dropping cap. We have it in EU, and it's very effective at dropping the co2 emissions of electricity production and industry. What is needed is carbon tariffs, or carbon club:

https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.15000001

To beat the rest of the countries into submission. If all co2 emissions are under same cap-and-trade emissions system, from climate pov it doesn't matter that bitcoin is energy inefficient. The bitcoin miners will simply have to buy their emissions rights or use clean energy. Even if bitcoin energy use would skyrocket, the co2 emissions would continue to drop at the same rate as the co2 cap drops...

The root of the problem goes deeper - why haven't developed nations such as USA and Australia have co2 cap and trade? I'd blame fox news and its ilk, which have figured out which buttons to press on people to make them dumb. Despite the immense damage to environment and society they have created, democratic societies have not figured out how to fix that problem. Come on, we have had decades of time to monitor and learn of Murdoch et atll, and the problem has only got worse...

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#72

Post by baybal2 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:15 AM UTC

alex_smart wrote: post #38

itmayno wrote: post #8

The native citizens will come to HN and offer some rationalization. The non citizens will offer others. The reason is very simple. The dictator is paranoid about losing control and getting killed. Simple as that

The dictator is paranoid about losing control and getting killed from the private tutoring industry? :o

People don't need to reach the high bar of regicide to be considered a challenge to the system: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28032536

> "Activity that is harmful to the economy?" I think they get much more glaring issues to care about if it comes to this.

> What about their wrong simply being "getting too rich, and successful," and causing somebody a burst of jealousy?

> Becoming richer than a partyman in some small village is very much a challenge to the party. What changed now is that the entire China has become that village.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28028463

> I keep the claim that the explanation is even more simpler: whomever becomes a big man in a country like China eventually goes down, and that's the whole story.

> There can only be one "big man" in such system, and he tolerates no competition.

> This consistently held true through the whole 40 years of modern China: whomever attains too much of the social, political, economical, cultural, moral, or even genealogical prominence consistently gets taken down. This is why most mainland Chinese have that fear of publicity, and standing out almost bordering on panic disorder. And this is why people attaining any level of prominence there keep leaving the country for the West.

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#73

Post by reader_mode » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:17 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #69

reader_mode wrote: post #40

I feel like investing in market pathologies has become too common and modern democratic governments are far too slow at doing there roles and curbing such behaviour. Bitcoin is the obvious example of something that should have been banned years ago (and all proof of work crypto), but there are so many examples coming up daily, if there was ever any faith in institutions it's eroding quickly, and once you remove that…

The governments of the world are one of the driving forces behind the pathologies. The reason asset prices are crazy is because the government has figured out that if they print money and give it to asset holders then they get stock market growth but are still able to call inflation low. If they didn't have their thumb on the scale, interest rates would be higher and boring, stodgy savers would be in control of the m…

I don't disagree, but I can see why they want high growth. But if you choose that path you need to actively manage the pathological cases, especially the ones you create.

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#74

Post by baybal2 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:21 AM UTC

trainsplanes wrote: post #67

drenvuk wrote: post #62

I can see why hackernews was (is?) banned in china. You guys see nothing but negatives in any policy decision that comes out of there. Sure there are some power struggles, sure there's a powerful cadre of billionaires who own the politics of the country but aside from the pretty disgusting issues with the Uighurs I would consider china up there with Norway in terms of country development. If you just contrast what Xi…

Is hacker news banned in China? I've always used it as a way of testing my internet connection there since HN loads quickly and has been ignored by basically every filter everywhere. I haven't been to China since borders were shut down, but HN worked there last January. And to address everything else, I wouldn't say China is Norway-level, but they're definitely on a very clear upward path of development and accelerat…

> Is hacker news banned in China?

It been banner around a year ago when links to Github repos with Wuhan exposes started popping here.

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#75

Post by reader_mode » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:21 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #53

reader_mode wrote: post #40

I feel like investing in market pathologies has become too common and modern democratic governments are far too slow at doing there roles and curbing such behaviour. Bitcoin is the obvious example of something that should have been banned years ago (and all proof of work crypto), but there are so many examples coming up daily, if there was ever any faith in institutions it's eroding quickly, and once you remove that…

> Bitcoin is the obvious example of something that should have been banned years ago (and all proof of work crypto) not that i would invest in bitcoins (or any crypto), but i don't see it as an obvious ban. The only reason i can deduce from your "obviousness" comment is that proof of works "wastes" energy. But then it is hypocritical to argue this when other modern conveniences also "waste" energy, and yet you don't…

What is the utility provided by crypto ? Money laundering, avoiding capital controls, financial speculation ? All while burning insane amount of energy and hoging up limited chip making supplies.

It's clear cut that o the whole crypto is a huge negative for society.

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#76

Post by trhway » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:22 AM UTC

interesting that the lifting of the children number restriction coincides with the attack on the "three mountains" - education, healthcare and housing costs - which are significantly related to the size of the family.

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#77

Post by baybal2 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:27 AM UTC

bhawks wrote: post #54

tmule wrote: post #20

In America, politicians are controlled by billionaires. This comes at the cost of national interest, given that winner-takes-all systems are gini coefficient maximizers. In China, politicians control billionaires. At least in theory, especially given how much the Chinese political establishment is attuned to the needs of the Chinese commoner, this does protect the national interest.

China's parliament is a literal billionaires club. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/business/china-parliament... There is no altruistic motivation to better the lot of the common person. The only motivation is to maintain control.

> There is no altruistic motivation to better the lot of the common person. The only motivation is to maintain control.

I don't take it even as a control maintenance. They are now literally back to years when they were taking it as an insult for anybody to be more rich, and successful than a village party head.

It's 100% truth. Heard stories of people having their houses demolished for building them more fancy than the house of a party leader nearby, and that was not in the cultural revolution era, but barely 3 decades ago.

Bad old times are back.

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#78

Post by bumbada » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:29 AM UTC

Zardoz84 wrote: post #68

> 22-year-old motorbike courier Mr. Tang complains about the lack of medical insurance. “There’s nothing I can do about it if Meituan doesn’t pay for it,” he added. “The wealth gap between people in this society is too big”. People should stop calling China a communist state, when isn't. If they we are truly communist, not will be medical insurances or a "entrepreneur" driving it. It would have a public medical syste…

China is a communistic state precisely for that. You would also say that Venezuela or Cuba is not communistic.

The only communistic country that had a moderately good public medical system was German Democratic Republic, and it was because the constant influx of help and resources from the West.

The more communist a State is, the more miserable it is. You had China with Mao making tens of millions of people die of Hunger. Was Mao not communistic?

At the start of the 20th century Russia population was bigger and richer than the US of A.

Lenin destroyed the economy and made millions of people die from hunger, way more than on WWI. Was he not communistic?

Let's not talk about Stalin or PolPot.

>Private education never should allowed to exists. Only a quality public education system can give access to good education to everybody.

You are confusing education with forced indoctrination and propaganda.

I can educate and think for myself. Just repeating a mantra or dogma ignoring History like you do is not education.

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#79

Post by jowday » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:30 AM UTC

exporectomy wrote: post #61

jowday wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, but the chance of getting that when you pay for an education is low enough for it to be an anomaly in my experience.

That's not what teachers and tutors are for. The personal human interaction motivates you to do work that you wouldn't bother to otherwise. Some schools even call them "facilitators" or some other word to remind you they're not just a firehose of facts.

Why would I want an education in something I’m not motivated to do past, say, high school?

Re: Xi Jinping’s Capitalist Smackdown Sparks a $1T Reckoning

#80

Post by oreally » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:38 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #51

oreally wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it this way is too much of a simplification. There is good and bad. For now their priorities intersect with the chinese commoner, ie. Protecting themselves via serving the chinese commoner. Another bonus to this is the ability to make harder decisions now for the sake of the future. The fact of the matter is that with this 'aligned interests' dictatorial style you can more done and plan for the future - so lon…

Authoritarian decision making is great until the authority starts making the wrong decisions. The bipartisan politics of the the US is not a bug, it’s a feature. It was entirely intentional that power was split and broad consensus was required to get anything done.

Categorizing it as either a bug or a feature is thinking at extremes and is indicative of the influence of the media on your minds, leading to poor decision making. It's a feature with weaknesses.

As another example, the NRA preventing gun control laws in spite of school shootings. The path the US has chosen is both poison and boon. The trouble is who gets to suffer from the poison?