The rise of never-ending job interviews • Hacker News Board

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#401

Post by tsukikage » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:34 AM UTC

trinovantes wrote: post #301

ladberg wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similarly bad Google experience that I've talked about before[0] but will copy here: I was asked to do a task that eventually boiled down to a topological sort, and I thought the question consisted of recognizing that the answer was a topological sort and moving on because it was over the phone. However, that was not the case. The interviewer wanted me to code it all out over Google Docs, but I didn't remembe…

I once had an in-person interview where they gave me a sheet of printed code and asked me to point out the syntax errors. Some interviewers are absolutely insane.

A past employer of mine used to have one of these. It was a true work of art: around two dozen lines of code with something to discuss in EVERY SINGLE LINE, ranging from dumb syntax errors to logic errors to problems of overall design. Made for some great conversations.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#402

Post by lloydatkinson » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:37 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #353

yobbo wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is disrespectful, but it is a proxy test for how many hours you have spent reading and writing code in that language.

A while back Indian companies were notoriously famous for giving questions from Let us C, from Yashwant Kanitkar . The questions go like, What is the output of the expression below? int i = 10; ****++&&*+p; Followed by a myriad of options. Including things like Syntax error . Not sure how this measures language proficiency.

That probably explains a few things...

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#403

Post by agent327 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:37 AM UTC

Terr_ wrote: post #346

ladberg wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Design mistakes maybe, but syntax errors are just not representative of any real debugging experience IMO.

I could see it if you're resume talks about a whole bunch of intense recent development in the exact same language they want to test, but only then. In contrast, I've been stuck in a giant multi-language integration-fest, and... well, there are definitely languages on my resume that I would not be comfortable being pop-quizzed on, simply because I've been using others for the past two years.

I've been doing C++ full time since 1996, and yet I frequently have intellisense warning me about forgetting something silly - like a missing capture in a lambda, or even forgotten semi-colons. That's because I'm not an f'ing compiler.

_Can_ I make sure the code is 100% correct before even compiling? Sure, but I'll spend an hour checking every detail, while intellisense does it while I type.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#404

Post by janoc » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:37 AM UTC

lrem wrote: post #299

silisili wrote: post #119

My one and only Google interview went this way years ago. Each round they'd send me more books to study, which frankly I couldn't be bothered to read given the circumstances. My experience ended when an interviewer in round 3 or 4 asked me an obviously scripted question. I answered sarcastically, he got peeved, and I never heard from them again. I'm not claiming I'm Google caliber, whatever that means. Obviously I'm…

Now, the inode question is part of the pre-screen. That's normally _before_ you get put on phone with any engineers. How the heck did you get it in "round 3 or 4"? Was your process started from scratch for some reason? The question is meant to be asked by a sourcer - a contractor whose list of requirements does not include being answer themselves any of the questions they ask. Famously even if you know the answer pre…

>Famously even if you know the answer pretty well, say because you were the original creator of the thing, but answer in a way that they can't link to the answer key, you still fail.

Which is the most ridiculous part of it. You are being examined and evaluated over trivia in a subject that the examiner likely has no idea about and where there are only 1-2 possible "correct" answers.

That's like sending a janitor to "source" surgeons by asking questions to people in white coats in a competing hospital about appendectomy.

Yet this is considered effective (and acceptable) somehow ...

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#405

Post by janoc » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:39 AM UTC

burntoutfire wrote: post #335

speedgoose wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That confirms that we shouldn't bother if we value our time and energy.

Many people apply to all the FANGS, since the interviewing skillset needed is similar. Moreover, you can reapply every six months. In result, this gives you perhaps 5-10 lottery tickets every year, which means it's very feasible to get in within a year or two (or three).

In other words - don't bother to apply if you actually need a job. And if you have a job already, why would you bother to apply there? It used to be attractive but is it still? With all the scandals and upheaval in the recent years?

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#406

Post by ratww » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:40 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #63

LAC-Tech wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This a hundred times over. I still remember in 2020 multiple places asking me "I see you've used .NET core, what *version* have you used?". I had a kind of career crisis/breakdown, where I realised no one gave a shit about anything except my utility as a walking set of tech keywords. Accepting that it wasn't working for me was one of the best things I've done for my career.

> where I realised no one gave a shit about anything except my utility as a walking set of tech keywords. I am genuinely asking. Why is this objectionable? Why do people find it so horrible that their labour is a commodity? To me that just tells me I should treat my labour like a merchant treats his goods. Always be checking the market to ensure you have something worth selling and while you might sign long term deal…

Because a Company expecting a "walking set of tech keywords" is a terrible deal for everyone but charlatans.

It is terrible for inexperienced developers eager to learn on the job as is common in other industries or was in ours in the past.

It's terrible you're an experienced developer that is able to pick technologies quickly, or just wants a proper work-life balance.

It is terrible for developers who are deeply familiar with the technology but expect to work with a team of professionals, rather than with "walking set of tech keywords".

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#407

Post by nvarsj » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:40 AM UTC

silisili wrote: post #119

My one and only Google interview went this way years ago. Each round they'd send me more books to study, which frankly I couldn't be bothered to read given the circumstances. My experience ended when an interviewer in round 3 or 4 asked me an obviously scripted question. I answered sarcastically, he got peeved, and I never heard from them again. I'm not claiming I'm Google caliber, whatever that means. Obviously I'm…

For all the complaints, people will continue to jump through the hoops given an engineer with 3-5 years experience can make close to 400k in TC/year. That is not happening anywhere else outside of FAANG and certain finance companies. Google can be as picky as they want.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#408

Post by nextlevelwizard » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:43 AM UTC

theonething wrote: post #370

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is stuck with a "junior developer" who hasn't produced a single line of working code during past 1.5years in my team the "one interview and done" isn't working these days.

how is this person not fired?

We have too good employee laws. As long as you are trying your best it is really hard to fire anyone. There needs to be evidence that they aren't capable and even then they need to be given multiple chances over multiple months to correct this problem.

Only way to fire someone on the spot is if they are breaking law or refusing to do the work

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#409

Post by DrBazza » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:44 AM UTC

I would have thought in 2021 companies would say "if it's a 'not sure', then it's a no", but I've worked at some places recently where "not sure" would get additional interviews. That's one problem.

Another problem is in certain companies, senior management don't trust their own staff and want to be involved in the recruitment process.

Yet another problem is poor CV vetting. You really can tell a lot about a candidate just from the CV. Even if (in the UK) an agency has mangled the CV into its own 'template' for companies.

Demonstrating knowledge of algorithms is fine. Having to implement a red-black tree in an interview, or some arcane template corner of C++'s standard library from scratch, is not a good use of anyone's time.

If companies don't keep consistent interview processes, if they have two 'yes' candidates for one role, they can't fairly compare them and choose.

My worst/most lengthy interview was for a certain bank, that famously expects employees to work 12-14 hr days, and weekends. Total interview time: 24 hours. The result boiled down to the MD/partner interviewing me last, and having the yes/no decision.

Re: The rise of never-ending job interviews

#410

Post by emptyfile » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 8:44 AM UTC

Nition wrote: post #150

silisili wrote: post #119

My one and only Google interview went this way years ago. Each round they'd send me more books to study, which frankly I couldn't be bothered to read given the circumstances. My experience ended when an interviewer in round 3 or 4 asked me an obviously scripted question. I answered sarcastically, he got peeved, and I never heard from them again. I'm not claiming I'm Google caliber, whatever that means. Obviously I'm…

And yet if they ask you for an answer to a quirky question like "why are manhole covers round?", they expect a clever answer like "they can't fall in", rather than a pedestrian answer like "well, probably they just started making them that shape for some simple production reason, and then everyone else just kinda of did the same thing because it worked."

What? Manhole covers aren't round. Silly americans.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_LWPSf1_ugFI/TA4tx-22QRI/AAAAAAAAFx0/T1...