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Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

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Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#221

Post by equinoxmist »

matkoniecz wrote: post #206
systemvoltage wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the main benefit of using a credit card. The primary benefit of a CC is decoupling it from your bank account - if there is an issue, CC company will fight the charge for you and almost always side on your side. I bought a pair of speakers costing $2500. I tried to reach to the company for a return but no one would answer. No phone, no email, nada. 1 month return deadline was coming up and I called American…

Then why not us debit card? Chargebacks are also available and risk of ending with spiral of debt is removed. (Yes, it is a real risk. Yes I know that you and me are not going to e so stupid. But I am not trusting this belief.)

Because at least if it goes wrong, the money being used isn't actually your money until you pay the CC bill. That $2500 is still sat in your account.

Spiral of debt is only a risk if you have no discipline.

For those of us that do have discipline, CC's are great.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#222

Post by kart23 »

greenbeans1991 wrote: post #217
kart23 wrote: post #213

I've seen the afterpay button when shopping online. Hate to say it, but this is absolutely taking advantage of people with poor spending & saving habits. I see it mostly at overpriced/luxury/hype online stores, where the desire to own a product doesn't come from a place of need, but from society & marketing. I buy some of this stuff, so I'm not hating on that. But some people are truly addicted to shopping, and enabl…

How is it different than credit cards?

You can get afterpay without having credit. You can get afterpay even if you owe $7k on your maxed-out credit cards. Bank of America doesn't have a shiny button turning those $200 dollar pants into '4 payments of $50' on a website.

It's like asking 'hows flavored vape juice different from cigarettes'. Both bad, but they appeal to different markets and one takes advantage in a more sinister manner. No doubt there are people that can use it in a healthy manner, but overall it's a net negative. Credit cards can be just as predatory in my view though.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#223

Post by equinoxmist »

greenbeans1991 wrote: post #217
kart23 wrote: post #213

I've seen the afterpay button when shopping online. Hate to say it, but this is absolutely taking advantage of people with poor spending & saving habits. I see it mostly at overpriced/luxury/hype online stores, where the desire to own a product doesn't come from a place of need, but from society & marketing. I buy some of this stuff, so I'm not hating on that. But some people are truly addicted to shopping, and enabl…

How is it different than credit cards?

Just easier. I use credit cards, but also have a Klarna account. If the shop uses Klarna, I will often use that because it is to well integrated, and then pay off Klarna with my CC, which in turn is paid a month later. Essentially I don't pay for something for over 2 months.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#224

Post by [deleted] »

kart23 wrote: post #213

I've seen the afterpay button when shopping online. Hate to say it, but this is absolutely taking advantage of people with poor spending & saving habits. I see it mostly at overpriced/luxury/hype online stores, where the desire to own a product doesn't come from a place of need, but from society & marketing. I buy some of this stuff, so I'm not hating on that. But some people are truly addicted to shopping, and enabl…

[deleted]

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#225

Post by mrmicemice »

geekpowa wrote: post #128

Afterpay's business model relies on high merchant fees which merchants, under their merchant agreement, are not allowed to pass onto their customers. So from customers point of view, afterpay often appears to be cheaper than other payment channels such as credit card / paypal. Afterpay roll into a new merchant, cannibalise existing payment systems and at leat for the low margin merchants I work with, who are not savv…

I definitely see the overspending argument, but BNPL is actually way better than the alternatives in the current market. Credit card companies make an overwhelming majority of their revenue (up to 90%) from consumer penalties, while Afterpay makes the majority from merchants. It's a fundamentally different business model and lines up the incentives with consumers, where as CC companies want actively look to abuse people with poor credit.

IMO we all have engrained in our brains the horror of the credit card death spiral and it's warping our perception of any innovation in the space of consumer credit. I think we will see a bnpl takeover of traditional credit and generally healthier consumer finances.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#226

Post by robin_reala »

chrisseaton wrote: post #16

Anyone know the difference between Afterpay and Clearpay? Two brands for the same thing? Why?

That confused me as well (I’ve previously worked a little on Arvato’s AfterPay) but it was cleared up by https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/afterpay-forced-to...

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#227

Post by m12k »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #47

Every time I see one of these announcements, the valuations go up and up and up and up. I remember not long ago being wowed by a 1B acquisition. That was called a unicorn because of how incredible it was. And now we're at 29B. Is this just because money is all a joke?

The market value of a company or person is determined by the market value of whatever they're shoveling around every day. Shoveling around software is valuable, but shoveling around money even more so. It just doesn't get more pure than that - it's literally the thing we use to measure the value of everything else.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#228

Post by distances »

xenihn wrote: post #142
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an early 20s Kiwi zoomer, so somewhat similar demographic. I don't have a credit card and see no point in it. I use a debit card for everything. I don't think most of my friends have credit cards either, but maybe they do and I don't notice.

I've received roughly $3000 in rewards from my credit card usage over the past six years. Not a life-changing amount, but not completely insignificant, either. I think the biggest thing that I've lost is data privacy, but I would think that debit cards incur the same cost. I've never used any of the benefits like extra insurance/warranty, but it's nice to know they exist. Chargebacks on debit cards are also much more…

Assuming NZ is like Europe, the are no rewards thanks to fees being low due to regulation. Chargebacks exist but are not as strongly defaulting on consumer side; to succeed, you need real proof of merchant not holding up their side.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#229

Post by nsonha »

jeeeb wrote: post #192
nsonha wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of finance companies offering high salaries. Not SV level, but pretty close. How close? let's say AUD 300k (I'm honestly curious, does Optiver/Atlassian/Google even pay that much here?) which is a mind-blowing salary in Australia, tops all kinds of taxes, it converts to USD 220K give or take, adjusted for higher taxes and cost of living, down to about 200k. So a top earner 0.1% in Sydney makes as much as a st…

I’m not overly familiar with US salaries but it looks to me like you’re comparing net salary for a high paid job in Sydney, to gross salary for a FAANG role in SF. Presumably they have to pay taxes and have a high cost of living as well :) I don’t know how accurate it is but the 2020 SO developer survey puts the median salary for an engineering manager in the US at $152k and an SRE at $140K. In my experience that’s m…

200k is like a low base for FAANG, and there are other great companies that pays well not just them. It is a good salary in America but not that impresive, as you can get that by just being an individual contributor.

On the other hand, AUD300k is a C-level salary here in Australia and way past the start of top tax bracket (AUD180k)

SO numbers are way off comparing to levels'. They're heavily skewed toward the low end. Think about it, who even bothers reporting salary there? I don't even find SO useful in general, these days when I look up an issue I usually end up on github, not SO.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#230

Post by scatters »

rwmj wrote: post #219
J253 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t have a credit card and see no point in it. If you use a credit card like a debit card (pay it off in full every month) it can be rewarding depending on the card. I make $75-$100 cash back every month on my credit card.

Where does the $75-$100 come from? Is it that prices are generally more expensive, or is it a transfer from people who get into terrible debt?

It's mostly from merchant fees. This means that it's being paid by consumers who use other payment methods - but then, those come with their own costs.
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