Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work • Hacker News Board

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#211

Post by akagusu » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:14 AM UTC

This conversation is not about remote work but wage reduction.

Before the pandemic, companies had employed remote workers and paid them based on business value, but now they want to pay us based on the location we live.

They are creating a narrative that they pay us based on the cost of living, but it's just an excuse to reduce our salary.

They are forcing us to go back to offices because corporate executives are elitists control freaks that think remote work is a privilege workers should not have.

They are putting pressure on this question because they know the majority of developers would prefer to stay remote and they will put pressure on us until we accept the wage reduction.

But I tell you we should not accept this. The media always says there is a shortage of qualified workers in the tech industry so we, as employees in the tech industry, are qualified workers and since there is a shortage of us, we have the power to impose our conditions.

I want remote work with full salary and I think you too.

What do corporations fear? Unions.

They fear unions so badly that they are willing to pay lots of money to union bursting firms.

So I say you we should unionize, we should combine our power to fight this devilish attempt to reduce our salaries.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#212

Post by perl4ever » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #111

todd3834 wrote: post #10

I’ve been part of a lot of these conversations and it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. The trick is how to please everyone. It is easy to say, let those who want to come back come and those who don’t stay home. However those that want to go back say it is because they want to be surrounded by their coworkers. Having gone back to the office vo…

> Things seem to be hardest for younger single employees who don’t always have great work from home environments and are also sometimes lonely. Also, some of my coworkers with kids are having a hard time being productive with pressures from kids or spouses that don’t respect the working from home boundaries. I agree this is a reality and has to be considered. But we need to acknowledge that this is people's personal…

>Bob's personal problems are the reason I can no longer interact with my new born baby a few time throughout the day

If you don't get paid family leave for several months in that situation, that's not your co-worker's fault. That's how it's supposed to work.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#213

Post by Buttons840 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #212

Buttons840 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Things seem to be hardest for younger single employees who don’t always have great work from home environments and are also sometimes lonely. Also, some of my coworkers with kids are having a hard time being productive with pressures from kids or spouses that don’t respect the working from home boundaries. I agree this is a reality and has to be considered. But we need to acknowledge that this is people's personal…

>Bob's personal problems are the reason I can no longer interact with my new born baby a few time throughout the day If you don't get paid family leave for several months in that situation, that's not your co-worker's fault. That's how it's supposed to work.

It's just an example. The point is a co-workers is dealing with his personal problems by forcing other people to do things they would rather not.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#214

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #141

animanoir wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find astonishing that some people want to go back into the cage.

I find it astonishing that people think sitting in their own homes all week is reasonable behavior for an adult, let alone a behavior that others should accommodate.

[deleted]

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#215

Post by France_is_bacon » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 3:41 AM UTC

People don't understand how companies work, and the real hidden agendas that drive all decisions about employees.

In addition to remote work, some here have commented about private offices vs cubicles or open desks without even cubicle walls. Obviously, it is much cheaper to give someone a desk in an open space, with zero extra costs. The cost savings then can to to giving the CEO an ultra expensive office. I've read some can get up over a million dollars, with gold faucets in their private bathrooms, rare Italian marble credenza tops and all furniture made of rare mahogany wood, and the like. For example, a Pininfarina Aresline Xten office chair costs $1,500,000. John Thain, Merrill Lynch’s CEO, spent approximately $1.22 million to upgrade his office. Goldman Sachs' retiring Lloyd Blankfein spent top dollar to build its soon-to-be retiring chief executive a new office as he transitions to an advisor for the firm - exact numbers are not known but it is over $500,000. Many other peoples' offices had to be moved for the ex-CEO, in order for Blankenfein to get a coveted view of the Hudson River.

This is essentially the same exact reason why CEOs want people to work in the offices. For both, it is personal vanity.

When the CEO brings people into the office - personal friends, family, clients - the CEO wants to show off how great he is. Vanity. "Look at me, look at how important I am with my own expensive office that costs $528,000."

In the same way, the only reason the CEO wants people at the offices is for his vanity. It is more impressive for the CEO to bring his friends to an office where there are thousands of workers, all reporting to the great big important man. Oh, he is so important. How impressive is the CEO if there's only a barebone skeleton crew of 8 people?

Peoples' vanity is limitless, and they will literally tank a company rather than give up on their vanity. People think that CEOs are attached to the bottom line, to maximize shareholder value, but they are not. It's all tied to their vanity.

No, this is not the case for all CEOs, of course, but probably is for a good 84.827% of them, as shown by France Is Bacon polling company.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#216

Post by sharken » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:17 AM UTC

jonathankoren wrote: post #187

sharken wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So i must agree to disagree then, none of the examples mentioned require you to make changes to your body.

Then you need to read it again. No one is making you make changes to your body. You are always free to go somewhere else. Come on. If vaccines are ao offensive, why do you want to work for someone that only wants people that are vaccinated around them? Take some responsibility for your life choices instead crying, “Woe is me!” No one owes you a job, nor do you owe any employer your labor. Walk if you don’t like it. F…

Well, if all companies apply the same rule then you are not really free to choose are you ?

I don't take offense with the vaccine, it has helped to turn things around, it's the mandate that i have a problem with.

And again, tattoos, hair style and so on are things that you freely choose to do, they are not mandated and thus are not the same thing.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#217

Post by matz1 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:20 AM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #210

matz1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why zoning is really bad. Those company could have converted some of those space into housing. Provide it to the employee as benefit for cheap/free. I believe quite significant number of employee would happily live on campus.

How is zoning really bad ?

Because they can't just convert some of the space in their campus to housing because of zoning.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#218

Post by matz1 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

bigbillheck wrote: post #24

matz1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why zoning is really bad. Those company could have converted some of those space into housing. Provide it to the employee as benefit for cheap/free. I believe quite significant number of employee would happily live on campus.

Lots of office space is simply not suitable for conversion into living space.

What I mean by conversion including demolishing the office building and building apartment instead not just retrofit existing office building to be a living space.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#219

Post by matz1 » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:23 AM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #45

matz1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why zoning is really bad. Those company could have converted some of those space into housing. Provide it to the employee as benefit for cheap/free. I believe quite significant number of employee would happily live on campus.

One step closer to a company town. And makes the prospect of a job change that much more painful.

Yes, it can be painful but not necessarily have to. Its not like there is no way to mitigate the pain.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#220

Post by ramdomjoe » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:28 AM UTC

goalieca wrote: post #37

notpachet wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of these problems seem solvable without forcing employees who want to work remote to come in. Agreed. Most of the issues that you highlighted that cause employees to prefer being in-office (loneliness, children and other distractions at home, work/life balance) are not attributable to being remote per se. Exacerbated by it, sure. But we should probably be addressing those problems head-on in a more intentional…

> (It actually runs counter to the work/life balance problem you mentioned I’m not an old fart but I’m on my way. I find is brilliant to talk about house repairs and kids and vacation tips with my colleagues. It really brings some chill to an otherwise chaotic day in an absolutely volatile industry.

I work currently in distributed team and if you want water cooler chat you can join status meeting some half an hour before and have that. There is always someone online already.