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U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#251

Post by [deleted] »

mahogany wrote: post #241
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just have the sample. Your refusal to not consume it isn't going to change them buying the plastic, because given the choice, people aren't going to stop sampling in the aggregate. And at that point you're just signaling to other people in a really silly way. If you really care, talk to your local representatives or write to Trader Joes and Whole Foods. Anything else is posturing. Not taking a sample which costs them…

> If you really care, talk to your local representatives or write to Trader Joes and Whole Foods. Anything else is posturing. Or you can do both. > Your refusal to not consume it isn't going to change them buying the plastic, because given the choice, people aren't going to stop sampling in the aggregate. And at that point you're just signaling to other people in a really silly way. This is a strange viewpoint to me.…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#252

Post by CheezeIt »

nikisweeting wrote: post #84
CheezeIt wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landfills aren’t everywhere.

Why not not focus on building more and better landfills then? Seems like a better solution that shipping trash long distances to other countries only to have it end up in the ocean.

We don’t ship our “trash”, distinguished from our recycling, to other countries.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#253

Post by kspacewalk2 »

cwkoss wrote: post #250

Are all plastics equal harm? I wonder if we just legislated taxes on plastics that local recycling centers can't utilize, if we could get the majority of the benefit of banning plastics with few of the downsides? To what extent would greater standardization of plastics mitigate this issue (and make recycling more profitable)?

Even plastic the ends up in a properly built American landfill is certainly much less harmful than plastic dumped into the river in a third world country. To the point where the comparison itself becomes a little bit ludicrous.

Considering it takes so much less fossil fuels to make plastic containers than to many alternatives, shouldn't we focus on proper disposal in poor countries and otherwise move on to much more pressing environmental concerns, like I don't know, climate change?

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#254

Post by nikisweeting »

CheezeIt wrote: post #252
nikisweeting wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not not focus on building more and better landfills then? Seems like a better solution that shipping trash long distances to other countries only to have it end up in the ocean.

We don’t ship our “trash”, distinguished from our recycling, to other countries.

Nah, the vast majority is trash to begin with or ends up as trash. Only a fraction ends up recycled.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#255

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

beprogrammed wrote: post #178
dfxm12 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is the system at fault here? Capitalism?

"Economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit" no not capitalism, governance.

Not sure that presenting a definition of capitalism gets it off the hook here.

When you don't have a remote third party (the capitalist) involved in your transactions, things are simpler.

You can just ask: is the person I'm doing business with creating more problems than they solve? And then not do business with them if the answer is yes.

If you acknowledge property rights that justify the involvement of capitalists in your transaction, you now have to also ask the same question of them and weigh those answers against the first. It's much harder to figure out who's agenda you're furthering with your money--so most people just don't bother. Both parties blame this abstraction that hangs over their business and neither takes responsibility for its consequences.

The invisible hand ends up being a scapegoat and nothing changes.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#256

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #42
hereforphone wrote: post #37

This might be the case, I don't necessarily dispute it. But with this sort of thing always keep in mind that the US (and other Western countries) tend to be more compliant with reporting actual facts than say.... China (who somehow is ranked 107 in the world for covid-19 cases, despite their huge population).

[flagged]

Communist leaders starve millions of their own people, and capitalist leaders starve millions of people in countries that they exploit, but I don't think that the overall death count is especially off balance.

For instance: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/4/1/churchills-policies-...

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#257

Post by pcdoodle »

elric wrote: post #36
INTPenis wrote: post #15

I believe it. But that doesn't mean we're innocent in the rest of the western world. One really cool improvement here in Sweden recently, besides "banning" plastic bags at supermarkets, was one store called ICA started selling their burger pattys in cardboard packaging. So the only plastic is a top foil that you peel off to open the package, the rest is cardboard. Pretty cool! That's one area where we're all guilty,…

Not to rain on your parade, but all these "little things" add up to ... a little thing. Cling film and aluminium foil are both incredibly useful at ridiculously tiny thickness/weight levels. One roll of 30m of either easily lasts a year or two in my kitchen. A glass tub probably has way more embodied energy, I'd need more of them, etc. The full life cycle analysis might not be as clear cut as we'd like. Those "cardbo…

That's a pretty good point. Pick your battles as they say.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#258

Post by readflaggedcomm »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #167
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> re-used as household trash bags But that’s a one-time reuse for something that’s not going to biodegrade when it ends up in the ocean or landfill

It should never end up in the ocean, and nothing really biodegrades in landfill, especially not paper.

If nothing did, landfills couldn't harvest methane as fuel.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#259

Post by nate_meurer »

alkonaut wrote: post #239
bserge wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly, no - just dumping shit in a big hole is the most environmentally friendly thing to do - least energy used, least pollution created. The problem is having the space in some place where neither flora nor fauna will be affected.

That’s the problem though isn’t it. Assuming trash will never be without electronics, batteries etc, it will end up in water. As far as I understand, burning in decent facilities should keep most nasty stuff out of the atmosphere and ground water (e.g heavy metals)

Since the late 80's, American landfills are required to be lined and equipped with water treatment facilities to preven groundwater contamination. Doesn't completely eliminate the risk of course.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#260

Post by nate_meurer »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #208
throwawayboise wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper degrades if it is near the surface, mixed with loose dirt, and still getting oxygen. If it's packed down under feet of compacted soil and other trash it degrades much more slowly.

I thought the heat deep within landfills is intense from all sorts of things degrading.

It depends entirely on the content of the waste and the levels of moisture and air infiltration.

Some landfills are known to generate huge amounts of methane, and ooze black sludge at the surface. This famously occured after the 1989 San Francisco earthquake.

In contrast, landfills in arid places can preserve trash like a museum:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-07-17-mn-14066-...

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