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Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

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Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#61

Every time I see one of these announcements, the valuations go up and up and up and up. I remember not long ago being wowed by a 1B acquisition. That was called a unicorn because of how incredible it was. And now we're at 29B. Is this just because money is all a joke?

Kind of? If you follow monetary policy circles, you would know that we are only close to the predicted level of fantastic market distortions that should be expected.

It is fantastic to see it play out, such as valuations much larger than before, as well as the unexpected areas of speculation and shifts in market tolerances for worse deals.

But we aren't even done yet! And this comes with a pretty clear agreement on the limitations of monetary policy, like we know massive central bank balance sheet increases don't accomplish their [stated] goals well. But we also expect central bank balance sheets to increase by further distorting the market. When central banks purchase things, whoever they bought it from now has money that didn't exist before the transaction. This money doesn't "trickle down" into the economy, instead it more so pools with these people that are active in the capital markets, and they are trying to figure out how to make more of that money faster than the central bank buys and creates more. So the only way to do that is to attempt greater and greater deals. Because there is nothing else to buy - the central bank already bought the "good investments" (bundles of mortgages, treasuries, investment grade corporate bonds, even some junk bonds) and is also looking for more just like you are! So now you have to take greater risks, maybe this $29 Billion deal that the central bank won't try to get in on!

The conundrum is that now the capital markets are expecting the central bank to buy everything, especially the dips. (most central banks don't buy stocks, but when they buy fairly illiquid bonds from people those people often buy stocks. in US a lot of the stimulus money came directly from the central bank after Congress modified its charter to give currency directly to people in exchange for nothing, and the recipients also bought stocks. the same sentiment is distributed in all socioeconomic classes even the top 0.01%.). So if the central bank gives a hint at reducing purchases (called "tapering"), the markets crash, and the central bank is strongly advised to continue!

The stated purpose is to get people to invest in "main street", instead of just the same small collection of assets. Turns out, it doesn't matter and nobody wants to invest in random entrepreneurs. The market is signaling that it would rather pay to not invest in randoms (in many parts of the world, government bonds have a negative yield, which means people are paying to own a bond while also further losing on inflation). So if you do have access to the capital markets due to your pedigree or network or net worth, the stuff you sell - your company's shares that you typed up on a sheet of paper, or whatever - will have a much higher valuation because other people have nothing else [eligible] to buy and need to put their money somewhere!

The US is the strongest hold out on negative interest rates, and is the largest market too, so the anticipation of the "season finale" is that the US gets to that territory as well, and then we really get to see some fireworks in the market as it is a major psychology barrier as well. Watch the 2 year and the 10 year treasury rates, as they are seen as having the most liquidity and trading activity.

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/i...

As you can see they are really close to 0% right now, for a prolongued period of time. Getting to this negative stage requires SOOOOooooo much infathomable amounts of money, hoarding government bonds. But the central bank is the main purchaser of these bonds, from both the treasury and private owners on the secondary market, as they buy they push the yields closer to zero. (bond price increase = lowers yield)

fun times ahead! expect greater valuations and quick!

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long-term effects of a zero-interest loan? What are those?

You sound like a BNPL marketer. The loan has late fees, the app is branded as a easy POS way to buy things with money you don't have. There is no credit check. You can sign up to a dozen of the services at once. It is credit, it has the same negative effects as credit. BNPL is as bad for people as 20% apy credit cards are.

Right. They are giving out interest free loans to people out of the goodness of their heart. What a swell company. Wait what? They make more profit when people fuck up? Well I am shocked.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#64

I've just come to accept that I'll never understand corporate finance. Based on the data I could find, this works out to a sales price of about 76 times revenue for Afterpay. Even for a fast growing company, how can they ever grow into that valuation? Of course, it's an all stock deal, so perhaps it's better to just consider what percentage of Square they're giving to Afterpay stockholders, but I still just can't wra…

We're in a gigantic bubble

There have been tens of trillions of dollars and other currencies created from thin air the last year and a half. And more is being created currently. This isn’t just the US government. It’s basically all governments in the world.

EDIT:

Fed has been purchasing 120b of assets per month https://cheddar.com/media/federal-reserve-to-keep-up-asset-p...

Federal government has spent at least 3.5 trillion on COVID-19.

EDIT2: More like 8.6 trillion. 2 trillion added by the bills passed early 2021.

https://datalab.usaspending.gov/federal-covid-funding/

That is the US. Then add all the other countries in the world.

That much extra money chasing the same amount of the goods and services, investments, etc…

So either we are in a bubble or currency has been devalued.

EDIT3: Fed spending is about 25k per person in the US.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#65
post #58

As a foreigner in Australia, I can't help but to think that Australians really don't know how to handle finances and are too irresponsible to use a credit card, so Afterpay and Zip stepped in. Maybe it's because I grew up in Europe, but "Don't buy it if you can't afford it" has served me well. The majority of people I know just use credit cards for the perks but never miss a full payment.

Actually, the biggest afterpay's market is in US.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#66

Ok so Square has opted to engage in predatory practices. Noted.

I see you have a few posts on this thread and are obviously not a fan. I had not heard of afterpay before this thread, but I checked them out and I agree they are a predatory lender. Some people obviously feel differently, but I don't see (other than a bit of nice branding) how they are different than Money Mart or Easy Home or anyone else that gives you money you don't have, but makes sure to collect it one way or another.

Like I said elsewhere, people should be free to make their own choices, but this is certainly not a business model to be applauded.

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#69
post #58

As a foreigner in Australia, I can't help but to think that Australians really don't know how to handle finances and are too irresponsible to use a credit card, so Afterpay and Zip stepped in. Maybe it's because I grew up in Europe, but "Don't buy it if you can't afford it" has served me well. The majority of people I know just use credit cards for the perks but never miss a full payment.

Actually, the biggest afterpay's market is in US.

Oh wow, I didn't know that :)

Re: Square to acquire Afterpay for $29B

#70
post #58

As a foreigner in Australia, I can't help but to think that Australians really don't know how to handle finances and are too irresponsible to use a credit card, so Afterpay and Zip stepped in. Maybe it's because I grew up in Europe, but "Don't buy it if you can't afford it" has served me well. The majority of people I know just use credit cards for the perks but never miss a full payment.

I’ve lived in Australia for 10 years and still cannot believe how flippant people here seem to about getting into debt. Tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt, a mortgage covering 60% of a salary, and a leased car seem to be fairly standard for a lot of my peers. It feels like they’re all 3 missed months of salary away from having absolutely nothing. Obviously all anecdotal but still astounding and probably not too uncommon here in Sydney.
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