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Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

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Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#241

Any tips on getting a remote FAANG SWE job? Is it really all LinkedIn profile + attracting a recruiter?

For the latter question, "maybe"?

I have a LinkedIn but I don't really keep it actively updated. But for my current FAANG job I was sourced via LinkedIn. Received a random recruiter inbox message there and eventually was hired.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#242
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I never understood how you could even pay someone 100k TC… it’s just that some companies make a LOT of money, so much that’s it’s just impossible to fathom.

> Personally, I never understood how you could even pay someone 100k TC I grew up fairly poor (what Americans consider "poor"), home was a double-wide trailer, best my mum could do for food was peanut butter and crackers. Got better in later years towards the end of childhood. But a combination of: the above, being homeless for a while, and working a lot of jobs like manual labor/landscaping, dishwashing, food servic…

Would you rather more money go to management and stock holders? Folks doing the work and making the world more productive deserve a larger share of the pie, not a smaller one.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#243
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side - I tell recruiters immediately they have to AT LEAST match my current comp. Every single one of them so far has said they can't even get close. If you work at FAANG - your RSUs (most likely) have doubled in about a year. You could easily already be getting paid more than the max offer for the level above where you're currently at.

I've actually seen the opposite. I'm at a FAANG, but based in Toronto. For the first time, recruiters are saying to me that yeah, they can do better than that total comp. Often much better. I like my boss and team, but if someone offers me enough money and a fully remote job, well, it's going to be hard to say no.

Always remember: your manager is right now looking for a new job too.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in FAANG I have a hard time understanding how any developer is worth that amount of money though. I know a solid number of FAANG and ex-FAANG devs -- the stuff they work on (from what I've heard) isn't much different from the sorts of software I assume most people in SaaS startups work on. Outside of scale (which is significant). A lot of it is internal tooling though, which never hits absurd amounts of scale. I…

I think with FAANG it’s mostly just down to them having insane valuation and being able to give out those stock options. The base salaries don’t seem particularly high, until maybe the highest levels.

If you look at FAANG earnings, their annual gross revenue (before expenses), is at least $1M per employee. Last time I looked Apple does $1.5M including all their Apple store employees.

It's not just insane valuation. If the employees are bringing in $1M per head, you can afford to spend more on those who are making stuff.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What sort of software do you have to be writing besides magic money printing machines for it to be worth that amount of money? My understanding is that you have to get into FAANG or be in certain roles at certain HFT firms. I’m also pretty sure these are TC numbers are large chunks of those numbers are stock options.

Even in FAANG I have a hard time understanding how any developer is worth that amount of money though. I know a solid number of FAANG and ex-FAANG devs -- the stuff they work on (from what I've heard) isn't much different from the sorts of software I assume most people in SaaS startups work on. Outside of scale (which is significant). A lot of it is internal tooling though, which never hits absurd amounts of scale. I…

A developer is worth whatever the local market pays at the time to retain them. If you have a look at housing costs in the bay area/Seattle (close to work 2000 sq ft ~ 2 million US dollars), you will understand why anything below 200k makes almost no sense in these areas for an experienced dev, and why 400k+ is fairly common.

I agree with you - hence why it is very hard for early stage startups to give meaningful offers in the bay area.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#246
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the fact that many desirable jobs get hundreds of applicants. It's entirely possible that even if your resume is top notch it got lost in a huge pool of candidates. You need to send your resume to hundreds of companies. I have a top-tier resume, and when I job search, I aim to send my resume (and cover letter/email) to 10+ companies per day. On the other side, last time I was hiring, I was shocked at the low…

Why do you care about cover letters? I haven’t written one of those in probably 20 years. If I’m hiring and a candidate includes one, I usually ignore it (when hiring for an individual contributor, engineering role).

I've only paid attention to cover letters for junior positions, mainly to evaluate communication skills.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#247
post #115

Not my experience at all. For context, I'm a L6 at FB right now and have more than a decade of experience. I've never seen tech interviews become as stupid as they are now. In the last 3 months I've applied to a few places, including one where I literally built from scratch what the hiring team wanted to do (and got promoted for it at FB), and I've never seen the difficulty of the programming rounds so high as now. I…

Im curious to hear what types of companies an L6 / E6 at FB is applying to. Without mentioning company names, what types of opportunities are out there that convince you to leave this type of comp [1] [1] https://www.levels.fyi/company/Facebook/salaries/Software-En...

To put it simply, I used to have hobbies before working at FB. Now I don't have time for anything besides work. While the pay is really good the job is a non-stop, grueling grind with no downtime allowed. I enjoyed my time but I'm done with it. Also I can't say I'm proud of working there. There's people inside that are really great to work with and the job was challenging and interesting, but I don't care for FB the company and what it's doing in general.

With that said, and I know it's a first world problem, I'm looking for a place that aligns with my views and in some specific fields that I find interesting. I'm fine taking a pay cut depending on the company and the position, I don't care so much about money anymore as an employee.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even leaving aside golden handcuffs the number of companies paying top of market seems relatively small. That’s especially true once you get past entry level positions.

I feel the opposite. A decade ago, it was pretty much Google, Facebook, and some elite trading firms that could pay a ton. Now so many startups have grown up, there’s a huge list of them on levels.FYI that will pay 400k+ for senior and 600k+ for staff. I recently have interviewed for a ton and got rejected a bunch, but I joked with my spouse that there’s so many that by the time you’re done interviewing at all of the…

Bay area?

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25092246

> That means doing getting multiple offers within the same time period before you accept one. I need help on getting to the salary negotiation part with multiple companies at the same time though. This is the instruction booklet for landing a lunar lander on the Moon. I need the one for the Saturn V.

A lesson I did not learn: I dedicated each lunch hour every day for a couple of months ringing up companies and agencies. I moved jobs three times and doubled my salary in that year - which seemed good.

Then I attended a seminar - the question was asked who used agencies and who used their "network" for new jobs / freelance work.

I was the only hand up to go used agencies and the traditional job hunt.

So it's the old saw - keep a profile up - blog, project, podcast whatever, so you can use that as an excuse to stay in touch with ex-colleagues so that they might think of you when they are hiring in 3 years.

As I said not a lesson I have learned but people who earn more than me recommend it

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#250

Once you’re coasting in the 400-500k FAANG range, what’s the optimal move to get 700-800k+? Seems there are too many graybeards to get a Principal title. Better to switch to manager role? Or VP eng type at some startup and hope your stock hits? Or maybe VP at some non tech company?

What kind of a fairy tale is this -- 400, 500, 800k? I make ~110k, and I have no hobbies but code + contribute to a variety of OSS projects in my freetime. What sort of software do you have to be writing besides magic money printing machines for it to be worth that amount of money?

Not sure what level you’re at but 150+ is pretty widely available for fully remote SWE positions.
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