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Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

arstechnica.com

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Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#191

Post by throwaway6734 »

animanoir wrote: post #91
todd3834 wrote: post #10

I’ve been part of a lot of these conversations and it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. The trick is how to please everyone. It is easy to say, let those who want to come back come and those who don’t stay home. However those that want to go back say it is because they want to be surrounded by their coworkers. Having gone back to the office vo…

I find astonishing that some people want to go back into the cage.

I've been going back to the office 3 days a week and am loving it. I find it much easier to get into deep work, put in longer days, and maximizing my productivity.

The two wfh days become almost half days due to banked up hours while in the office.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#193

Post by cratermoon »

trunnell wrote: post #113
cratermoon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd happily go back to working in the office. If I had an actual office , not a 4-foot wide folding table that's part of a line of eight of them in 12 rows in a room the size of a basketball court. I haven't had an "office" to go to work in since 2000. I've shared spaces with anywhere from three to all of my co-workers. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and…

"Private offices with doors that close" - that's the standard at Fog Creek Software, the company behind Stack Overflow, Trello, and other great products. Microsoft also provides offices (or at least used to). These companies might be on to something. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-creek-... An opposing perspective: note that the cost for private offices is very high vs. cubes. Assuming Class A…

> upgrade from cube to desk

Wait, you get cubes? That would be an upgrade compared to the open offices I am talking about. I mean open-plan offices, where each worker gets a flat surface, a rolling filing cabinet, and a power outlet.

I'd almost go back to one job where I had a cube, because the cubes there were maybe 8' (2-1/2m) square, high-walled, enough desk space to spread out, and even a personal coat closet/locker with a door. Make it another foot or two high, put on a cover and a door that closes and I wouldn't care that it was made out of cheap fiberboard covered in ugly carpet.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#194

Post by dilyevsky »

trunnell wrote: post #113
cratermoon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd happily go back to working in the office. If I had an actual office , not a 4-foot wide folding table that's part of a line of eight of them in 12 rows in a room the size of a basketball court. I haven't had an "office" to go to work in since 2000. I've shared spaces with anywhere from three to all of my co-workers. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and…

"Private offices with doors that close" - that's the standard at Fog Creek Software, the company behind Stack Overflow, Trello, and other great products. Microsoft also provides offices (or at least used to). These companies might be on to something. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-creek-... An opposing perspective: note that the cost for private offices is very high vs. cubes. Assuming Class A…

These are annual prices. Before covid you could get a private office in sfba for ~$10-12k/y in a coworking space. Cheaper if you get 2-3 person spaces

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#195

Post by sokoloff »

trunnell wrote: post #113
cratermoon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd happily go back to working in the office. If I had an actual office , not a 4-foot wide folding table that's part of a line of eight of them in 12 rows in a room the size of a basketball court. I haven't had an "office" to go to work in since 2000. I've shared spaces with anywhere from three to all of my co-workers. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and…

"Private offices with doors that close" - that's the standard at Fog Creek Software, the company behind Stack Overflow, Trello, and other great products. Microsoft also provides offices (or at least used to). These companies might be on to something. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-creek-... An opposing perspective: note that the cost for private offices is very high vs. cubes. Assuming Class A…

Commercial property when quoted as “$X/sq ft” means an annual rental charge, not monthly.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#196

Post by samstave »

todd3834 wrote: post #10

I’ve been part of a lot of these conversations and it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. The trick is how to please everyone. It is easy to say, let those who want to come back come and those who don’t stay home. However those that want to go back say it is because they want to be surrounded by their coworkers. Having gone back to the office vo…

Another option is to allow either 2-days home, 3-in office... or 3-days home and 2-days in... but maybe make it so that only wednesday is the only day where everyone has to be in office....

However - how many people have moved away from a commutable distance during the 1 year WFH period?

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#197

Post by giuscri »

edem wrote: post #180
bmat wrote: post #66

If you work at one of these companies and are frustrated by the decision to return to the office, I encourage you to seriously consider leaving to pursue a remote-first career. Not only to send a message, but also because there are many great remote opportunities out there right now. Ironically I had this battle with Google pre-COVID back in 2019. I was worn down by my commute and itching for a change of environment,…

Can you DM me too? I'm just curious about the company.

me too please! :)

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#198

Post by abz10 »

chaostheory wrote: post #189
abz10 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some tech jobs are only available in a handful of companies that were a part of the cartel. Some of us took the bet that a big investment in education in one of these specialties would pay off. The cartel effectively suppressed the pay off. Now these companies are complaining that the supply of specialists has dried up.

With recent limits on H1B, those companies aren’t wrong to say that the supply has dried up. That said, it means we have more leverage when it comes to remote work. If it means changing companies, so be it.

US companies are now being hoisted by their own petard.

There are not that many exploitable smart people left, even internationally. In my applied research niche they already hired internationally and the ability was rare, being high functioning autistic was basically a prerequisite. Supply dried up because these people have better options now; start ups, finance, crypto, independent scientists, more promising companies in their home countries.

It’s much easier for me to change companies than for companies to change. I’ve been remote for 7 years and will retire long before going back to an office.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#199

Post by perl4ever »

MattGaiser wrote: post #157
jonathankoren wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Filled your relationship time”? What are you expecting these coworker relationships to be? Dates? They’re coworkers. I’ve rarely interacted with coworkers outside of work. Also, I don’t think you’re going to have much of a problem socializing if you’re going around humblebragging about how you’ve optimized your work and personal time for peak employee performance.

I am defining “relationship” more broadly to encompass all my human (and dog in my case) relationships. I am not humblebragging about optimization. I have 24 hours in a day. They are generally all spoken for, meaning that for something to go in, something else must go out.

I don't understand how (and I think I've seen people implying it a lot besides you) office socialization takes away from socialization with other people elsewhere.

Don't you, like, have to work during those hours regardless of your environment? Even working for the government, they kind of expect that.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#200

Post by bsder »

sugarpile wrote: post #36
todd3834 wrote: post #10

I’ve been part of a lot of these conversations and it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. The trick is how to please everyone. It is easy to say, let those who want to come back come and those who don’t stay home. However those that want to go back say it is because they want to be surrounded by their coworkers. Having gone back to the office vo…

While I truly do appreciate the cooperative tone, as someone who never intends to set foot in an office again except by choice (outside of onboarding), I think this is a rare event that has reduced the power asymmetry and should be taken advantage of. How do we make execs more comfortable? Simple, we make it so they have no choice to be uncomfortable with. Allow full remote or lose a significant portion of your workf…

> While I truly do appreciate the cooperative tone, as someone who never intends to set foot in an office again except by choice (outside of onboarding), I think this is a rare event that has reduced the power asymmetry and should be taken advantage of.

Why do you assume that this won't result in you being replaced?

Sure, employers are paying a premium for remote work for the moment. That's a great demand right now and you absolutely should take advantage of that. Supply will adjust to compensate--developers willing to take less are flocking into the system. Companies are adjusting to be able to deal with workers not in their local jurisdictions.

Once that shakes out (and it will happen quicker than you think)--why shouldn't I lay off your expensive salary? If you can be completely remote, what value do you bring over someone else completely remote who is a bit cheaper? This is the classic race to the bottom problem.

Apparently programmers learned nothing from outsourcing. Management doesn't really care about how good you are. Most programmers aren't geniuses working on world shattering problems. They're doing the same thing that a thousand other programmers have done before.

The only people likely to survive this well are, in fact, the people who have a genuine need to be in the office.

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