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U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#191

Post by wongarsu »

dfxm12 wrote: post #93
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk, I don’t think it matters who we blame. The problem isn’t the multinational corporations that do this, it’s the system that lets them. We need a better system.

Which is the system at fault here? Capitalism?

Captialism (as implemented in many Western countries) can deal with these things, it just doesn't by default. We successfully solved ozone depletion, we made significant progress with acid rain, we got rid of leaded gasoline, our rivers are reasonably clean, ...

Reasonable legislation that sets the right incentives works. But it's difficult to get passed when entrenched interests are against it. The problem isn't capitalism, the problem is the industry influence on politics that prevents reasonable legislation.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#192

Post by nostromo »

INTPenis wrote: post #15

I believe it. But that doesn't mean we're innocent in the rest of the western world. One really cool improvement here in Sweden recently, besides "banning" plastic bags at supermarkets, was one store called ICA started selling their burger pattys in cardboard packaging. So the only plastic is a top foil that you peel off to open the package, the rest is cardboard. Pretty cool! That's one area where we're all guilty,…

A lot of cardboard packaging incorporates plastic layers in them -- something people seem not to know.

For example, your Starbucks cup is covered in plastic film and is generally not recyclable. It actually contains more plastic than straws do, which are now being banned in many cities. The same is true for things like milk cartons or juice boxes.

Even your aluminum soda can has plastic in it.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#193

Post by neutronicus »

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #77
jedberg wrote: post #27

This problem won't get fixed without legislation. Single use plastic is cheaper, so of course companies will use that if they can. Most people don't have the income to support "voting with their wallet", and even those who do don't always have the option. IF the best solution out there happens to use single use plastic, you're not going to opt for a worse solution just because it doesn't. And even if one company care…

Single use stuff seems easy enough to fix. What seems less obvious to me is what I experienced when shopping for a potty chair for our youngest there were dozens of options at just a single store for a big hunk of plastic that's only useful for a period of months. We ended up not buying one at all. I had a similar experience the last time I was at CES and was deep into the "South Hall" where there's kiosk after displ…

We've gotten a lot of stuff like this free through Facebook groups

Everybody's got aged-out baby crap taking up space in their house, if you can get them before they get off their ass to throw it out they're usually overjoyed for it to disappear

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#194

Post by dec0dedab0de »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #111
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about paper bags?

I seem to remember that paper bags are close to single-use plastic bags, but still use more energy to produce and also require wood pulp. Paper bags can easily be recycled, but "single-use" plastic bags can easily be re-used as household trash bags, or otherwise. So it's a toss-up.

I think a benefit of paper bags would be encouraging planting trees to make more bags

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#195

Post by amanaplanacanal »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #159
jeffbee wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most American consumers who find themselves at the local TJs or Whole Foods should probably feel way, way worse about driving to the store than about little plastic spoons.

I’m not bicycling in 20 degrees Fahrenheit to shop for a family of 4, bags strapped to a bike. And there’s no public transportation. I think I’ma pretty regular American consumer. So I should feel guilty about this according to you?

I suspect that for most people, when they are choosing where to live, environmental effects are way down the list. More important are: Will my kids go to a good school? Are the poor people (and associated social problems) far away from me?

Which is to say that if you choose to live someplace where you can't walk or ride a bike or have mass transit access to daily needs, you made that decision. I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong, though.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#196

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

abdupattoh wrote: post #186
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not bicycling in 20 degrees Fahrenheit to shop for a family of 4, bags strapped to a bike. And there’s no public transportation. I think I’ma pretty regular American consumer. So I should feel guilty about this according to you?

I typically shop on a bike for my family of six at -15 to -25 C in Finland. But I live close to a large store and bike roads are excellent and usually cleared if snow.

You’re a better person than me. Sorry, I’m not doing that. For the record, I’m roughly 6.5 km from a market. I wouldn’t even know how to strap 20 bags to a bicycle. How do you?

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#197

Post by sailingparrot »

jonas21 wrote: post #66
8note wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a sensible phrase? The environment is everywhere.

Yes, as long as the plastic ends up in a proper landfill, it won't cause harm to the environment. In places with good waste management practices, like the U.S., nearly all plastic trash ends up in a landfill. As a result, the U.S. is responsible for only ~0.25% of plastic in the ocean [1]. To put this in perspective, if you got the Philippines to reduce the amount of plastic it sends to the ocean by just 1%, it would…

> In places with good waste management practices, like the U.S., nearly all plastic trash ends up in a landfill.

This is not true, see [1].

> As a result, the U.S. is responsible for only ~0.25% of plastic in the ocean.

This is also not true, and your link does not say that. The link is saying that the rivers in the USA are carrying 0.25% of the plastic that ends up in the ocean, the U.S. (as in, the people living in the US) are responsible for much, much more.

Recycling plastic is a mess, so instead of dealing with it, countries like the U.S. or Canada have decided to ship it across the world to countries like the Philippines to be "recycled" over there (see [2]). So now, of course, if you look at where the plastic enters the ocean, you will see that almost all of it happens in Asian countries, that's not because they use more plastic, that's just because that's where all the plastic of the world ends up.

Taking into account the origin of the platic, the U.S. is among the worst offenders:

> "the United States generated the largest amount of plastic waste of any country in the world (42.0 Mt). Between 0.14 and 0.41 Mt of this waste was illegally dumped in the United States, and 0.15 to 0.99 Mt was inadequately managed in countries that imported materials collected in the United States for recycling." [1]

[1]: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/44/eabd0288

[2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_was....

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#198

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #195
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not bicycling in 20 degrees Fahrenheit to shop for a family of 4, bags strapped to a bike. And there’s no public transportation. I think I’ma pretty regular American consumer. So I should feel guilty about this according to you?

I suspect that for most people, when they are choosing where to live, environmental effects are way down the list. More important are: Will my kids go to a good school? Are the poor people (and associated social problems) far away from me? Which is to say that if you choose to live someplace where you can't walk or ride a bike or have mass transit access to daily needs, you made that decision. I'm not going to tell y…

Understood, and you are right. I’m just not going to feel blame or guilt that I drive to buy food because our priorities are different.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#199

Post by throwawayboise »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #188
frosted-flakes wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should never end up in the ocean, and nothing really biodegrades in landfill, especially not paper.

I mean, I disagree with both of those statements entirely. Do you have any sources? I do, but not googling at the moment. EDIT: quick Google search has many sources listing paper degrading in 2-6 weeks in landfills. Plastic in the ocean… I think you need to b by broaden your horizons if you think that doesn’t happen

Paper degrades if it is near the surface, mixed with loose dirt, and still getting oxygen. If it's packed down under feet of compacted soil and other trash it degrades much more slowly.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#200

Post by nitwit005 »

arodyginc wrote: post #26
zz865 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah everyone does, which is why those big oil companies are causing global warming but not me.

You can't cause any real harm to nature without help from corps. But they can, by just setting up an oil drill leaking into the ocean.

You're greatly underestimating what people can manage on their own. Even ancient peoples managed plenty of harm to nature. Deforested whole regions, wiped out species, damaged farmland with irrigation, etc.

Now there are vastly more of us, and we have a lot better tools to do damage with.

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