Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era • Hacker News Board

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#91

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

dbish wrote: post #4

Even if you think you’re well paid, now is the time to look around. I’ve had a lot of friends, mentees, and coworkers get huge bumps on total compensation even as relatively senior engineers and managers. Pay is jumping and companies aren’t doing a great job keeping that up for their people who have been around for a few years. As an employer, that should be the top worry, keep comp up, don’t lose your people because…

On the flip side - I tell recruiters immediately they have to AT LEAST match my current comp. Every single one of them so far has said they can't even get close.

If you work at FAANG - your RSUs (most likely) have doubled in about a year. You could easily already be getting paid more than the max offer for the level above where you're currently at.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#92

Post by warent » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

yosito wrote: post #89

warent wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may sound weird but it's easier to do this when you don't need it. When we're negotiating, people can smell desperation. If you can easily walk away from a negotiation/offer, you're suddenly in a much more powerful position. Once you're there, figure out how much sounds like a lot and ask for even more. Either they'll surprise you and accept the terms, or you will negotiate "down" to the amount that sounded like…

This negotiation tactic works fine if you don't have to do full day coding challenges to get to that phase, while also working a full time job.

These days I just immediately turn those down without a second thought. It's a joke of an interviewing system and your time is way too valuable for that.

Happy to do coding questions, but not 8 hour long take-home projects. Those have screwed me too many times

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#93

Post by yaitsyaboi » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

nine_zeros wrote: post #65

If companies (specifically management) were actually competent, they would know that it takes $20k-$40k to fill one position, $80k-$100k for that individual to optimistically ramp up to an existing employees productivity. All this takes at least 1 year. Instead of the time and money spent, they could easily boost the compensation of an existing employee by $25k and not lose money or time. But of course, nobody ever c…

I've always assumed a bean counter somewhere crunched the numbers and when you adjust for people who don't leave because of the stress of interviewing + friction of switching + uncertainty of new manager, it works out better for them to not do this.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#94

Post by dbish » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

nine_zeros wrote: post #65

If companies (specifically management) were actually competent, they would know that it takes $20k-$40k to fill one position, $80k-$100k for that individual to optimistically ramp up to an existing employees productivity. All this takes at least 1 year. Instead of the time and money spent, they could easily boost the compensation of an existing employee by $25k and not lose money or time. But of course, nobody ever c…

Yes, companies need to be way more aggressive in keeping current folks and changing their pay bands quickly in these situations. The problem for much of big tech is that the managers hiring have no real control over the pay bands so it’s left to folks who tend to not be in the software engineering group and do pay ‘studies’ that take a long time to show they are competitive in calculating their pay bands. This works until it doesn’t, then by the time you realize you lost people and can’t hire fast to replace them, you’ve fallen behind your competitors

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#95

Post by wintermutestwin » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

Here are some "dot-com era" flashbacks from a veteran greybeard:

Near the end of 1999, I moved from SV to smaller hot tech market with more affordable housing. I moved totally cold with no contacts or job lined up. The week after I arrived, I had 3 job offers. I picked the smallest web tech startup. After a couple months they got acquired by a SV megacorp and I was pissed! I wanted nothing to do with being a small fish in a big ocean of a company. But I had just bought my first house and my wife was pregnant. I planned to stick around long enough to vest some options. Then the big crash hit and the majority of web startups were gone and my megacorp's stock had cratered. I had the feeling of winning at musical chairs - Pyrrhic though that victory was.

Am I predicting some future tech industry crash? No, but maybe it is plausible. It does remind a bit of the shoeshine boy stock tip. Maybe the world will finally push back against ad-tech stalker capitalism? Haha - I wouldn't bet on that...

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#96

Post by Salgat » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

kilroy123 wrote: post #12

derwiki wrote: post #2

> But now, these technical interviews are often being waived Huh? First I’ve heard of that

I got a new job about ~5 months ago and this was not my experience at all. It was leetcoding questions for days. If you didn't ace it, you'd get ghosted quickly. One place, I did 3 rounds of interviews, an all day take home assignment. I still got ghosted! So I call BS on this quote as well.

I fucking hate leetcode. It takes me about a month or two of practicing to get caught up and proficient with leetcode, but there's 2 issues with that. The first is that that is a lot of personal time and effort to invest to prepare for interviews. And second, my professional skill does not increase at all from practicing leetcode. Leetcode beyond the concepts of easy/medium questions is programming trivia and reflects rote memorization more than anything else. And worst of all, leetcode distracts from far more valuable skills like design patterns and how to properly architect and design software.

In the end, the only companies that should be doing leetcode beyond the easier level questions are companies with an insane number of applicants where they can afford to turn away a lot of good talent.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#97

Post by cloudedcordial » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #48

y04nn wrote: post #32

Is this situation specific to the US? Has anyone experiences in other countries?

Canada. Am regularly bombarded with recruiters, although mostly for the US market.

Also in Canada as well. I have been regularly courted by recruiters from both US (remote) and Canada.

I have started a new job a few months ago. My now former manager was trying to come up with a counter offer, but my new offer is too far off from my old compensation package.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#98

Post by akamaka » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #10

My personal experience has been quite different. I got a bit burned out on my job and sent in my resume to 10 new places. All remote, some a bit of a stretch, others I was well qualified for. (Data science management and senior DS IC, respectively). I got zero hits. Not a single phone screen. Honestly I was pretty lazy about it, and didn't write cover letters or anything. That might be a contributing factor. That, or…

Reaching out to 10 companies is not enough for remote positions. They might be flooded with hundreds of resumes from around the world.

Check out what people in other industries go through, for context:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/b5sfbh/my_...

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#99

Post by tiagod » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

y04nn wrote: post #32

Is this situation specific to the US? Has anyone experiences in other countries?

Lisbon, Portugal. Haven't seen anything like this before. Anyone going through some frontend bootcamp will be hired immediately with much higher salaries than any comparable job with the same barrier to entry.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#100

Post by the_only_law » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

I hate that the market is so great right now because I really can’t take advantage of it.

I would love to start the process, to try and get a salary increase anywhere from 30%-100% but unfortunately I’ve stagnated sharply skills wise. Don’t qualify for the jobs I see I think I’d enjoy, and don’t even qualify for the jobs that meet my salary preferences that I’d otherwise dislike. I also would have to be looking at immediately remote roles which just makes things harder. I also am about 90% I could not perform on interviews at most places. Digging myself out of the aforementioned stagnation and prepping for interviews is likely to take years at this point and who knows what the market will look like at that point.