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Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

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Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is absolutely a red flag on the resume. Many hiring managers (like myself) do not want to import the toxic, backstabbing, PIP culture from Amazon into our org. Also I’ve noticed the quality of Amazon engineers is lower, on average, compared to Google, ByteDance, FB, Stripe, etc. My advice is to work somewhere not-Amazon for a year or two. Then you’ll get more bites.

> the toxic, backstabbing, PIP culture from Amazon into our org I don't think it's fair to blame this culture on individual line engineers.

I don't think most people at the IC/engineering level would choose that culture, but once they're in and inundated into that environment, how many are going to propagate it out of habit? That's the risk.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#62

My personal experience has been quite different. I got a bit burned out on my job and sent in my resume to 10 new places. All remote, some a bit of a stretch, others I was well qualified for. (Data science management and senior DS IC, respectively). I got zero hits. Not a single phone screen. Honestly I was pretty lazy about it, and didn't write cover letters or anything. That might be a contributing factor. That, or…

Find a good recruiter and put a solid profile on LinkedIn. The difference is night and day.

Will you please DM your LinkedIn URL to @AllesistKode on Twitter?

That is, if you don't want to post it here.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#63
An interesting corollary is that certain types of business are no longer economically viable. If I have a business that competes with advertising companies for niche talent, my business model has to be able to generate the same outsized returns on that talent if I want to be able to afford them, so this limits the work I can do.

I don't think people should work for below market wages, only observing how it can change what kinds of products and services are available. And in the case of tech talent, salaries are being driven up by a few key industries that arguably are not where society would like to see tech product and r&d investment concentrated.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#64
I have personally experienced this (with two job changes in the pandemic) however I am noticing new career switchers devs are still struggling as always.

I’ve run a mid level successful coding Instagram account for 10 months now and still hear the same problems from many new devs or just getting noticed.

I think this is reflected in my book addressing the problem hitting number 7 on product hunt last week.

Moral of the story, still give genuine advice to newbies as they aren’t always feeling the same love from the market.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#65
If companies (specifically management) were actually competent, they would know that it takes $20k-$40k to fill one position, $80k-$100k for that individual to optimistically ramp up to an existing employees productivity. All this takes at least 1 year.

Instead of the time and money spent, they could easily boost the compensation of an existing employee by $25k and not lose money or time.

But of course, nobody ever claimed that management is competent.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find a good recruiter and put a solid profile on LinkedIn. The difference is night and day.

do you have any tips for finding a good recruiter? I've never actually searched for one. I get recruiters contacting me on LinkedIn and they are pretty bad in my opinion. The ones I've followed up with know very little about the job they are hiring for and trying to get useful answers back from them is a giant pain.

Select the best-looking roles from the contacts you get, then audition the recruiters. Depending on your experience, this may mean relying on your gut. It also means meeting in person if possible, or at least on the phone. You want synchronous communications and the highest semantic bandwidth you can get. If they won't give you half an hour, that alone is a huge red flag. There's some other pointers in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28029857

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25092246

> That means doing getting multiple offers within the same time period before you accept one. I need help on getting to the salary negotiation part with multiple companies at the same time though. This is the instruction booklet for landing a lunar lander on the Moon. I need the one for the Saturn V.

Accept offer A. Receive offer B. If offer B > offer A, let company A know something has come up and you cannot continue employment. Accept offer B.

Lather, rinse, repeat for each offer. The better offer may be salary, perks, or just better work conditions. I once left a company after working there for 9 days because I got an offer working with my friend. I didn't even get a better salary and my friend ended up leaving after 3 months..

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is absolutely a red flag on the resume. Many hiring managers (like myself) do not want to import the toxic, backstabbing, PIP culture from Amazon into our org. Also I’ve noticed the quality of Amazon engineers is lower, on average, compared to Google, ByteDance, FB, Stripe, etc. My advice is to work somewhere not-Amazon for a year or two. Then you’ll get more bites.

> the toxic, backstabbing, PIP culture from Amazon into our org I don't think it's fair to blame this culture on individual line engineers.

I agree, however you do end up participating in it, you get used to it, and you bring it with you. That's the fear anyways. I think it's a little bit true. Facebook has similarly nutty PIP ("PSC") culture, and you see it from ex-Facebook folks who run other organizations once they leave.

I have seen recruiters red-flag FB/IG managers, depending on why they're leaving FB/IG for this reason. Engineers less so but it definitely comes up in the interview process. It comes up the other way too, when I interview - particularly senior - FB engineers, their first question is "tell me about your PSC culture."

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#69
I can't help but feel I know a lot of people this article refers to.

I've worked at some great companies with some great people and I certainly will again in the future. But my experience also contains burnout amounts of internal politics, radioactive code, Kylo Rens, "I'm just the ideas guy", et cetera. People love to glamorize it with foozeball tables and free pop machines, but in the end it's pretty stressful work for a lot of people and comes with few guarantees of employment stability or sanity. I'm not even going to get into what's happening at Blizzard right now, why would I want to work there? Do I want to listen to my friends yell at me because I work for the social network turning their grandparents into anti-science zealots? Do I want to be forced to live in a city I don't want to live in? These aren't salary problems for me.

A perfectly reasonable person may take their chances on a different profession, or downsizing their life, moving to a less expensive place and requiring less income, working on a small startup with their friend. Or living in a van and hiking a lot, which is a lot cheaper and probably also a lot more gratifying than an expensive apartment in a suburb of Expensive Tech Town. Perhaps the chaos, uncertainty, and mortality of the last year has simply made people re-consider their lives and professions. It's what a large percentage of my tech heroes ended up doing (I miss you all, but I understand).

From my experience, I would recommend these companies focus on creating environments that work for and reward sane people on a long term basis, rather than just try to coat over their problems with money. It's a far more better strategy for the people one would actually want to hire than trying to dump raw salary on people for six months until they're too broken to show up to work, then hiring new people that don't understand the code to clean up the mess. When I do startups, being a place people want to work is the only choice we can provide because we just can't out-compete most groups on salary anyways.

Re: Employers bow to tech workers in hottest job market since the dot-com era

#70
post #4

Even if you think you’re well paid, now is the time to look around. I’ve had a lot of friends, mentees, and coworkers get huge bumps on total compensation even as relatively senior engineers and managers. Pay is jumping and companies aren’t doing a great job keeping that up for their people who have been around for a few years. As an employer, that should be the top worry, keep comp up, don’t lose your people because…

For those of you who have done this, how do you maximise your compensation? Tips appreciated.

This may sound weird but it's easier to do this when you don't need it. When we're negotiating, people can smell desperation. If you can easily walk away from a negotiation/offer, you're suddenly in a much more powerful position.

Once you're there, figure out how much sounds like a lot and ask for even more. Either they'll surprise you and accept the terms, or you will negotiate "down" to the amount that sounded like a lot. Worst case scenario, they don't take the deal and you reject them to go find a new negotiation until you get what you want

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