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Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

arstechnica.com

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Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#151

Post by jdhn »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #22

I came out of retirement last fall for a while to work at an AI startup. One of the really nice things about the all-remote setup was randomly assigned long virtual coffee breaks every week. Given that I had a lot of samples (N ~= 50) of co-workers opinions on remote vs. in office work, I feel comfortable making a generalization: young single people mostly wanted to go back to the office while people in relationships…

>young single people mostly wanted to go back to the office

I realize that this is an anecdote, but as a young(ish) single person, this doesn't match up with my experience at all. Half our team is out of state, and I've never heard anybody express a desire to come in state to work at the office.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#152

Post by jonathankoren »

I think one of the underreported dynamics of this push to return to the office is that the biggest companies in Silicon Valley just BILLIONS on buildings. Buildings that are now empty, and soon to be filled by people that don’t want to be there.

Apple Park $5 billion[0]

Google over $7 billion nationwide ($1 billion in Mountain View alone)[1][2]

Facebook $300 million on MPK 21, a billion on real estate in general.[3]

And these are just some of the marquee players. If workers don’t return to the office, these executives just wasted $13 billion collectively. Well, we can’t have that! Force the plebes back into their boxes.

we’re living Cook’s, Pichai’s and Zuck’s a sunk cost fallacy.

[0] https://manofmany.com/living/architecture/inside-apples-insa...

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/26/google-spends-1-billion-on-p...

[2] https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2021/03/18/google-launches-bill...

[3] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/04/facebook-new-campus-has-redw...

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#153

Post by jonathankoren »

sharken wrote: post #110
paulryanrogers wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm glad that I live in a part of the world where vaccine mandates are not happening. Haven't heard this sentiment much. So I'm curious what's problematic about such vaccine mandates?

A vaccine mandate should not be mandated by corporations, instead it should happen on a country level if necessary. To me it's a slippery slope to allow corporations to mandate what happens to our own body.

The corporation isn’t mandating what happens to your body any more than the government is (as long as there isn’t forced injections). They’re simply choosing not to associate with un vaccinated people. This is first amendment from both sides all the way.

It’s literally no different from not wanting to employ people that don’t have a driver’s license, or some credential, or are convicted of crimes.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#154

Post by animanoir »

closeparen wrote: post #141
animanoir wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find astonishing that some people want to go back into the cage.

I find it astonishing that people think sitting in their own homes all week is reasonable behavior for an adult, let alone a behavior that others should accommodate.

But I don't sit all week; I work, I work out, I read, I'm with my family, sometimes we go to the park. Going to an office destroys times like these.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#155

Post by telxos »

ekster wrote: post #85

The companies are going to lose. There are too many good companies offering flexibility now.

Been back full time for 3 weeks by choice instead of being remote as people trickle in.

I think when people start going back we will quickly see that most aspects of the office are actually worse.

I am a hard worker but I am also social and with just a few people back I end up wasting at least 1 hour talking about non-work related things. This isn't even an open floor plan.

If you are going back to an open floor plan, forget about it. Things will be so obviously less productive.

I am enjoying going into the office but I also know this time is limited. At some point in the future going into the office is going to be a perk with remote standard. Bet your ass on that.

You don't even have to bring in the cost savings but the cost savings will be the knockout punch.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#156

Post by stjohnswarts »

biasedbrain wrote: post #102
h4waii wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said, I do want to point out that some of those who want to go back "to be surrounded by their coworkers" might be missing the fact that those who don't want to back might be because they don't want to be surrounded by their coworkers; they want to be surrounded by people they choose to have relationships with, not ones foisted upon them.

Didn't they choose their jobs, and with that, their co-workers? I'd like to see them argue "I don't want to come to the office because I don't like to be surrounded by people like you" as well. Is that a common argument? I think people who are unhappy with their working conditions should just look for another job. It's fine to try to convince bosses that changes would be beneficial, but I don't have much sympathy for…

Or they can continue to argue for work from home. Lots of people are not "people" extrovert types and prefer working solo with only a bit of contact with other people. It doesn't matter who the other people are.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#157

Post by MattGaiser »

jonathankoren wrote: post #116
MattGaiser wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I am a young single guy who is not really a fan of the office. A lot of that is simply that have already filled all my available relationship time. Adding new people requires removing other people or reducing my productivity to make more time available.

“Filled your relationship time”? What are you expecting these coworker relationships to be? Dates? They’re coworkers. I’ve rarely interacted with coworkers outside of work. Also, I don’t think you’re going to have much of a problem socializing if you’re going around humblebragging about how you’ve optimized your work and personal time for peak employee performance.

I am defining “relationship” more broadly to encompass all my human (and dog in my case) relationships.

I am not humblebragging about optimization. I have 24 hours in a day. They are generally all spoken for, meaning that for something to go in, something else must go out.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#158

Post by biasedbrain »

caskstrength wrote: post #148
biasedbrain wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't they choose their jobs, and with that, their co-workers? I'd like to see them argue "I don't want to come to the office because I don't like to be surrounded by people like you" as well. Is that a common argument? I think people who are unhappy with their working conditions should just look for another job. It's fine to try to convince bosses that changes would be beneficial, but I don't have much sympathy for…

> Didn't they choose their jobs, and with that, their co-workers? What do you mean? Did they tell you about guy with questionable hygiene and that other guy with chronic allergy that makes him cough all day long during your interview?

If they learned that they have awful coworkers, they can quit again.

I just don't get the sense of entitlement many people seem to have.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#159

Post by biasedbrain »

3gg wrote: post #108
biasedbrain wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't they choose their jobs, and with that, their co-workers? I'd like to see them argue "I don't want to come to the office because I don't like to be surrounded by people like you" as well. Is that a common argument? I think people who are unhappy with their working conditions should just look for another job. It's fine to try to convince bosses that changes would be beneficial, but I don't have much sympathy for…

I see what you mean, but I think there is a bit of a hidden fallacy here. Work is work for many people and not a fun place to socialize, despite this common and widespread idea that for some reason we should be doing the latter. Also, most people do not even get to choose their co-workers anyway. So it's not that one absolutely dreads being around their co-workers, but rather, it just boils down to one question: wher…

I have nothing against work just being work, but I think there are different types of companies for a reason. If you want work to just be work, you can choose a company that treats work just as work and doesn't expect you to become one big family.

Like if you give the example of young people and old people - fair enough, then maybe young people are better of looking for jobs where they work together with other young people, and people in their 50ies are better off in jobs with other old people.

Ultimately companies are not created for the benefit of employees, but to create stuff. They try to be good to employees to be able to attract and keep talented staff.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#160

Post by chaostheory »

closeparen wrote: post #141
animanoir wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find astonishing that some people want to go back into the cage.

I find it astonishing that people think sitting in their own homes all week is reasonable behavior for an adult, let alone a behavior that others should accommodate.

That’s the thing. It doesn’t have to be your home. You could be at the park or outdoor restaurant. If you’re lucky enough, it could be your backyard. The freedom to choose where you work is nice.
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