You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance • Hacker News Board

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#81

Post by mrweasel » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

papandada wrote: post #31

kiba wrote: post #10

I came around to the idea that procrastination or other form of akrasia is an emotional problem, not a discipline problem. That said, it doesn't really give me new tools or tricks to deal with the problems? It's still the same: podomoro or timeboxing, giving oneself a reward for completing an objective, trying to complete a given task every week, and so forth. I supposed I could give mental health therapies a try, I…

I definitely see procrastination linked to emotional processing issues for me. Maybe it's possible that there are things which provide immediate benefits, but for me many things I tried evaporated and I was still left with this base note, so to speak, of myself. I went to therapy, I went to 12 step meetings, I read books, I journalled, I talked the hell out of my thoughts and feelings with certain friends, got divorc…

It's a little like dieting really. If there was something someone could just say to make your weight, procrastination, whatever go away, then these problems would not exist.

There are exercises you can do, mentally and physically, which can help guide you through self-improvement, but they all require that we actually do them.

Some times is feels like I go years without making any progress with myself. Other times is just takes a small new action to gain remarkable results. Like you, I'm not sure it could have gone any faster and that's okay.

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#82

Post by dmos62 » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

JadeNB wrote: post #64

dmos62 wrote: post #51

It's never that you can't, it's that you won't. The distinction means a lot. It takes some luck to realise that all the I-can'ts are actually you trying to escape an internal conflict by putting yourself down. The internal conflict is about you wanting it and not wanting it at the same time. E.g. you want to be a success, but trying is scary. I don't really know how not to be afraid. It's something I'm working on. Bu…

> It's never that you can't, it's that you won't. While this sounds good, and I think is a reasonable guide for many life choices, it's simply not true. If I want to lift that enormous boulder over there, then it's not that I won't, it's that I can't. (Maybe this needs caveats: if I want to lift that enormous boulder over there only using my hands, etc.) I could believe something like "it's never that you can't try,…

Good points. What I said applies most obviously to situations like "I can't get out of bed", but I think it also applies to "I can't get this done", but maybe in more subtle ways.

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#83

Post by naasking » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #13

gala8y wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it isn't to clear, but the author tries to go in the direction of not fighting it. > 1. Recognise that internal resistance is on your side. Part of what is so awful about the cycle-of-not-doing-the-thing is that it feels so self-destructive. But internal resistance does not want to destroy us; it literally wants the opposite! It only exists to protect us from pain. also > There’s another reason why I think we s…

I think the article does just set up a new pathology. Your read is much more benign. The article’s set up is actually quite harmful and disempowering. It identifies resistance as a bundle of fears and pain to be overcome in order to be able to ‘just do’ the thing you are trying to do. Obviously sometimes fear and pain do exist, and acceptance and awareness of them makes it easier to move forward. However most of the…

> The article’s set up is actually quite harmful and disempowering. It identifies resistance as a bundle of fears and pain to be overcome in order to be able to ‘just do’ the thing you are trying to do

I didn't read that at all. The author is suggesting you acknowledge and face those feelings and what they may be trying to tell you about how you feel about your goals or work.

Sometimes the fears are that your effort will be pointless and unrewarded. In that case, assuming those fears are well grounded, the author suggests rethinking your plans and not necessarily trying to overpower your resistance.

That matches my experience in some cases, though obviously not all.

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#84

Post by balfirevic » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #59

jokoon wrote: post #43

It's weird how we don't want to admit we are overworked. Competition is such a horror show. I really disagree with the whole "procrastination" thing. It's normal to feel depressed, it's part of nature of being tired, our brains are fragile and require a lot of energy and sleep. I bet that I would generally would be much happier working at a moderate pace in a farm rather than using my brain to do some other complex t…

In 2010 I went to prune trees in Australia. Immediately, my depression stopped. Almost as if using the full body made everything better than using only the brain and speaking to a computer all day.

It sounds to me like it's not an entirely fair comparison. Pruning trees full-time for 10-15 years would be more comparable.

I don't claim to know if conclusion would be different or the same, though.

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#85

Post by scotty79 » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

That's very interesting way of thinking about those things.

That success (defined as successfully completing required work) causes damage, causes pain, often not as a side effect of the work that needs to be put in to achieve success, but by the success itself.

That parts of us recognizes the harm of success and resists when the other part pushes blindly for what it thinks the end goal should be.

Also mitigation strategies seem novel. Discovering what you fear about successfully finishing your work and trying to lessen the strength of those fears. Or doing small steps like acknowledging that doing 30 minutes of work will not result in achieving success so you can do that amount of work safely.

One common fear might be of that the result of you successfully finishing your task won't live up to your imagination about it.

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#86

Post by _moof » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #43

It's weird how we don't want to admit we are overworked. Competition is such a horror show. I really disagree with the whole "procrastination" thing. It's normal to feel depressed, it's part of nature of being tired, our brains are fragile and require a lot of energy and sleep. I bet that I would generally would be much happier working at a moderate pace in a farm rather than using my brain to do some other complex t…

Indeed. It’s amazing to me that in all the conversations about work/life balance, employers never consider the mind-blowingly innovative option of working less.

Instead we all get free subscriptions to meditation apps now. Thanks for the stopwatch. Can I go outside now?

I left the software industry for several years to do a job that required getting up and moving around, leaving the building, interacting with people... it was tiring, but in a much different way than programming. A much better way, if that makes any sense. It’s difficult to describe. But I’m convinced that office work is poison at the doses we take it.

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#87

Post by myself248 » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

marttt wrote: post #77

laurent92 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2010 I went to prune trees in Australia. Immediately, my depression stopped. Almost as if using the full body made everything better than using only the brain and speaking to a computer all day.

+1, I've been an on-and-off brush cutter and tree planter for several years. I can fully confirm this: physical work outdoors does wonders to mental health. The interesting part is that I can be really exhausted from a day in the woods, struggling to somehow get to the car, etc -- but after 7-8 hours of decent sleep, all of this is gone! No muscle pains next morning, no nothing. It is incredible how well our body can…

Concur 100%. I've always made sure my work has some physical component. Even if that's just soldering, I need to use my hands and know that something is different tomorrow because I did this work today.

The quickest way to crush someone's spirit is to make them feel that their work is for nothing. Making prisoners break rocks in the prison yard, for instance. Or pushing spreadsheets and git commits endlessly, to no tangible change.

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#88

Post by chrsig » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #21

kayodelycaon wrote: post #4

As with most posts of this type, it assumes you are neurotypical and not dealing with other issues that compromise executive function. This isn’t a bad thing, it’s just important to point out there is a prerequisite condition that must be met before this advice becomes useful.

Many with ADHD also suffer from this problem also. So it is a useful article either way.

You say that, but as a person with ADHD, I couldn't help but just skim the article. Not useful at all ;)

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#89

Post by chiefgeek » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #38

echelon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got ADHD and this. I couldn't be happier this came across the HN feed today, because it seems to accurately answer so many questions I've had about my performance on personal projects recently. I spent months working on the next version of https://vo.codes , and I've only got about five hours of frontend work to do before launching it. I've sit on it for a month now. What I think is happening is that I'm worried…

How would you go about identifying whether you have ADHD or not ? Any tips ? I really really suspect I have it but I have never talked to anyone about it.

Work with a professional. From numerous anecdotal stories, if you do have ADHD, taking medicine such as Ritalin or Adderal will radically alter you (in a good way). 15+ years ago, I had a psychiatrist who insisted I had ADHD. I took Adderal for a couple years. It did absolutely zero for me. Not one iota of change. I know others who swear by it. There was another comment in the thread about anxiety and hyper vigilance being a problem with similar symptoms. After much work, it's safe to say this was more my issue. There's a book called "Driven to Distraction" that is decent as well.

Re: You Are Not Lazy or Undisciplined. You Have Internal Resistance

#90

Post by SubiculumCode » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

moosey wrote: post #19

ttul wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, the article leaves aside the possibility that you might have ADHD, which is present in an estimated 7% of people in a clinically significant way, and likely far more to a degree that wouldn’t satisfy the DSM, but is still a handicap.

Anxiety will do it too. So will hypervigilance, which presents with ADHD like symptoms but arises from trauma.

My procrastination dropped a lot once I medically intervened on ADHD, Anxiety, and Depression. I wonder where I'd be now if I had taken these steps 20 years ago.