Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#61

Post by detaro » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

bulletsvshumans wrote: post #55

quesera wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not that simple. Fashion is an industry where hundreds of individual designers, some with the backing of megacorps and some without, try to meet popular interest (or to lead it), with production times measured in weeks to months, and with seasonal variation. There is no "fashion cabal" where designers get together for drinks and to anoint "cerulean blue" as the color of 2023 and then pull their customers…

> There is no "fashion cabal" where designers get together for drinks and to anoint "cerulean blue" as the color of 2023 and then pull their customers by the nose ring into purchasing. "Twice a year Pantone hosts, in a European capital, a secret meeting of representatives from various nations' color standards groups. After two days of presentations and debate, they choose a color for the following year." "OVER 20 YEA…

Not that I'm paying much attention to these things, but I've not seen much to support that "ultimate grey" and "Illuminating" yellow are the dominating colors this year? (https://www.pantone.com/color-of-the-year-2021)

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#62

Post by burlesona » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #35

cushychicken wrote: post #20

As a 30-something tech worker, time is definitely the scarcest and most valuable thing I possess. Even more so now that my wife and I have a dog. This statement gets orders of magnitude truer once you factor in the scarce overlapping time I have with my friends, all of whom are like me: 30-somethings with tech careers and young families. Whether the shortage of time is by corporate design or no, I'm in a phase of my…

Just wait till you have kids. You'll look back on this time as a paradise of freedom.

I wouldn’t say “paradise” of freedom. Definitely more flexibility without kids, but kids bring so much joy and meaning to life. For most people it’s a very worthwhile trade.

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#63

Post by namdnay » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #58

agumonkey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In consumerist societies "pleasurable" is very much stretched, when your life is dull, you'll find spending money on whatever cool guy is trying to sell you. People with big pockets know all about your flaws, social behavior in the large, fads and followers, and they sure play with it like an orchestra conductor. unlike russian communism you're not forced to do anything but you're seduced out of your mind, I guess it…

> you're not forced to do anything You are forced to choose between working to pay rent and health insurance or go hungry, homeless and ill or in prison. In various developed societies there is free healthcare, social safety nets, or some forms of UBI or other help. > but you're seduced out of your mind, I guess it's fair Fair? Consumerism is threatening all ife on the planet. Humanity can do so much better.

> You are forced to choose between working to pay rent and health insurance or go hungry, homeless and ill.

Oh lord, being “forced” to provide work in order to receive the work of others

I think the US has serious progress to make on safety nets, but this type of statement doesn’t really help move the discussion forwards

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#64

Post by closeparen » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

WhompingWindows wrote: post #19

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #2

I've noticed an interesting congruity - people in the FIRE community tend to target saving two-thirds of a modern western income, with most finding that living on less than one-third begins to have serious impacts on quality of life. From some studies I came across while studying sustainable energy it also seems as though a well-designed community in which residents make certain lifestyle choices can reduce resource…

Objectively, a lot of the consumption of modern Western life is unnecessary. We don't have to drive out to dinner, there's edible food at home. We could skip those bucket-list vacation trips, purchasing new items instead of making-do with old, we could live in more modest housing for our income levels. It's kind of trippy to imagine what the large-scale effects would be. If everyone cut their consumption by 1/3, our…

Ironically I think things like a regular cooking + cleaning regime and staying very close to home are most palatable when they’re essentially forced by a 9-5 job. With time on my hands I’d have much more pressing desire to explore, sample, and generally spend on what the world has to offer.

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#65

Post by bnralt » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

ilamont wrote: post #5

Western economies, particularly that of the United States, have been built in a very calculated manner on gratification, addiction, and unnecessary spending. Calculated, like in planned-economy, directive-from-the-top? I disagree. A lot of the "fluff," as the author describes it, is excess capital finding its way to things people find pleasurable, whether it be dope, travel, beauty, or rock and roll. Purveyors of suc…

In the post he seems to only being talking about corporations (as far as I can tell). His point about corporations pushing products that people don't actually need, and in fact often make people less happy, seems fairly on point. The entire advertising industries that exist to be a conduit for advertisements (most of the media) are based on trying to get people to spend their money on things they wouldn't naturally spend them on.

His argument that the 40 hour work week is a deliberate way to force people to be consumers is extremely unlikely.

You're point about excess and un-directed capital, though, probably hits at the larger issue. It also can be used to explain things like administrative bloat and inflating tuition at higher education institutions, as well as a host of parasitic industries that go beyond mere consumption.

It seems like we hit the singularity years ago, but the majority of the new capacity mostly went into waste, unhealthy addictions and borderline scams that have taken up an increasingly large part of the economy. One wonders if more direct involvement from society (perhaps a robust industrial policy) could have lead us in a more prosperous direction.

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#66

Post by namdnay » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

slv77 wrote: post #27

Sebb767 wrote: post #18

> The ultimate tool for corporations to sustain a culture of this sort is to develop the 40-hour workweek as the normal lifestyle. Under these working conditions people have to build a life in the evenings and on weekends. I slightly disagree with this point. The 40 hour work week is a rather recent development; in the past, people had to work a lot longer with no or only one day of. The trend actually goes in the di…

Longer work weeks we’re mostly confined to Industrial Age city populations that didn’t have access to land to farm. Few laborers working in early industrial mills was doing so because it was easier then farming. Agfa, Foraging and hunter-gatherer populations, work about 20 hours per week and transitioning to farming increased working hours. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190520115646.h... !Kung spend 4…

And hunter gatherers lived to what age, 40?

And you’re skipping a few thousands of years of civilization between hunter gatherers and the industrial revolution. I can guarantee a Roman or medieval farmer worked pretty much every hour of sunlight

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#67

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

ilamont wrote: post #5

Western economies, particularly that of the United States, have been built in a very calculated manner on gratification, addiction, and unnecessary spending. Calculated, like in planned-economy, directive-from-the-top? I disagree. A lot of the "fluff," as the author describes it, is excess capital finding its way to things people find pleasurable, whether it be dope, travel, beauty, or rock and roll. Purveyors of suc…

It's hard to believe western societies willingly and collectively wanted the fleshlight.

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#68

Post by namdnay » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

aiisjustanif wrote: post #45

pipthepixie wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the concept. There are even young people experimenting with retirement but for typically one year, also known as a 'gap year' where they don't work/study - they just explore.

In Europe, a gap year has been a thing for couple decades now, if not more.

Depends where in Europe. Definitely not common in France. I know it’s common in the UK, not sure about other countries

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#69

Post by grumblenum » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #58

agumonkey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In consumerist societies "pleasurable" is very much stretched, when your life is dull, you'll find spending money on whatever cool guy is trying to sell you. People with big pockets know all about your flaws, social behavior in the large, fads and followers, and they sure play with it like an orchestra conductor. unlike russian communism you're not forced to do anything but you're seduced out of your mind, I guess it…

> you're not forced to do anything You are forced to choose between working to pay rent and health insurance or go hungry, homeless and ill or in prison. In various developed societies there is free healthcare, social safety nets, or some forms of UBI or other help. > but you're seduced out of your mind, I guess it's fair Fair? Consumerism is threatening all ife on the planet. Humanity can do so much better.

A Malthusian crisis has been “imminent” since the 19th century. I think that you should try writing down what facts you think support the a priori assumption that our sinful ways are leading us to a future, sudden disaster. I don’t think you will find much evidence that isn’t traceable to popular opinion. Sorry, fam, it’s just Puritanism for the modern age.

Re: Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed (2010)

#70

Post by agumonkey » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #58

agumonkey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In consumerist societies "pleasurable" is very much stretched, when your life is dull, you'll find spending money on whatever cool guy is trying to sell you. People with big pockets know all about your flaws, social behavior in the large, fads and followers, and they sure play with it like an orchestra conductor. unlike russian communism you're not forced to do anything but you're seduced out of your mind, I guess it…

> you're not forced to do anything You are forced to choose between working to pay rent and health insurance or go hungry, homeless and ill or in prison. In various developed societies there is free healthcare, social safety nets, or some forms of UBI or other help. > but you're seduced out of your mind, I guess it's fair Fair? Consumerism is threatening all ife on the planet. Humanity can do so much better.

When I say fair I mean 'accepted' by people, they know people are selling them stuff, probably useless, but they still choose to go and buy some. It's fair to most people's brain inner workings IMO.

Also I had various western countries in mind in my comment, including those where healthcare is paid for, it doesn't change the overall lifestyle that much (high rent, long hours, dumb jobs)