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Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

arstechnica.com

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Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#111

Post by Buttons840 »

todd3834 wrote: post #10

I’ve been part of a lot of these conversations and it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. The trick is how to please everyone. It is easy to say, let those who want to come back come and those who don’t stay home. However those that want to go back say it is because they want to be surrounded by their coworkers. Having gone back to the office vo…

> Things seem to be hardest for younger single employees who don’t always have great work from home environments and are also sometimes lonely. Also, some of my coworkers with kids are having a hard time being productive with pressures from kids or spouses that don’t respect the working from home boundaries.

I agree this is a reality and has to be considered.

But we need to acknowledge that this is people's personal problems coming into the workplace. If there is going to be a compromise, at some point I'm going to at least want it acknowledged that Bob's personal problems are the reason I can no longer interact with my new born baby a few time throughout the day, and will thus spend significantly less time with them during this brief phase of their life. I also want it acknowledged that Bob's personal problems are the reason my risk of early death in a car accident are greatly increased. Otherwise, I'm going to feel that any "compromise" is forced.

It's a hard problem.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#112

Post by refurb »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

I recommend unionizing (a federally protected activity) to enable negotiating for benefits (including remote work) collectively. This presidential administration is already gunning for Big Tech, strike while the iron is hot (for more robust worker rights). You can be well compensated and still demand a seat at the corporate table as a stakeholder in a business.

If you’re a high performing employee a union will just hurt you.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#113

Post by trunnell »

cratermoon wrote: post #70
todd3834 wrote: post #10

I’ve been part of a lot of these conversations and it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. The trick is how to please everyone. It is easy to say, let those who want to come back come and those who don’t stay home. However those that want to go back say it is because they want to be surrounded by their coworkers. Having gone back to the office vo…

I'd happily go back to working in the office. If I had an actual office , not a 4-foot wide folding table that's part of a line of eight of them in 12 rows in a room the size of a basketball court. I haven't had an "office" to go to work in since 2000. I've shared spaces with anywhere from three to all of my co-workers. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and…

"Private offices with doors that close" - that's the standard at Fog Creek Software, the company behind Stack Overflow, Trello, and other great products. Microsoft also provides offices (or at least used to). These companies might be on to something.

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-creek-...

An opposing perspective: note that the cost for private offices is very high vs. cubes. Assuming Class A space in a premium location is around $85/sq.ft. per month [1]:

6' x 6' cube: 36 sq.ft. * $85 = $3,060/mo

8' x 10' office: 80 sq.ft. * $85 = $6,800/mo

10' x 12' office: 120 sq.ft. * $85 = $10,200/mo

What would most people choose: upgrade from cube to desk, or add $3,500/mo to their paycheck?

[1]: rental rate chart at https://www.squarefoot.com/office-space/ca/san-francisco

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#114

Post by 3gg »

animanoir wrote: post #91
todd3834 wrote: post #10

I’ve been part of a lot of these conversations and it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. The trick is how to please everyone. It is easy to say, let those who want to come back come and those who don’t stay home. However those that want to go back say it is because they want to be surrounded by their coworkers. Having gone back to the office vo…

I find astonishing that some people want to go back into the cage.

They are ready to rumble.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#115

Post by acituan »

cdrini wrote: post #99
acituan wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. Do you mean the majority? Because that is not true. The percentage of employees that want to go back and that doesn't want to go back are both significant and comparable. The question, as you say, is how to make everyone happy, but the meta-question is, does everyone really need to be happy? A hybrid solu…

Since when does significant mean majority? It means significant; ie nontrivial; a number you can't ignore. I think the comment is asking the HN community for potential suggestions/solutions that allow for the remote-loving crowd and the office-loving crowd to coexist (presumably in a single company), since their needs are a little at odds with one another.

Majority by definition implies significance, and I wanted to clarify they weren’t meaning majority. I think I am missing the point you’re trying to make.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#116

Post by jonathankoren »

MattGaiser wrote: post #34
h4waii wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said, I do want to point out that some of those who want to go back "to be surrounded by their coworkers" might be missing the fact that those who don't want to back might be because they don't want to be surrounded by their coworkers; they want to be surrounded by people they choose to have relationships with, not ones foisted upon them.

Yes. I am a young single guy who is not really a fan of the office. A lot of that is simply that have already filled all my available relationship time. Adding new people requires removing other people or reducing my productivity to make more time available.

“Filled your relationship time”? What are you expecting these coworker relationships to be? Dates? They’re coworkers. I’ve rarely interacted with coworkers outside of work.

Also, I don’t think you’re going to have much of a problem socializing if you’re going around humblebragging about how you’ve optimized your work and personal time for peak employee performance.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#117

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #112
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

I recommend unionizing (a federally protected activity) to enable negotiating for benefits (including remote work) collectively. This presidential administration is already gunning for Big Tech, strike while the iron is hot (for more robust worker rights). You can be well compensated and still demand a seat at the corporate table as a stakeholder in a business.

If you’re a high performing employee a union will just hurt you.

[deleted]

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#118

Post by mattkrause »

trunnell wrote: post #113
cratermoon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd happily go back to working in the office. If I had an actual office , not a 4-foot wide folding table that's part of a line of eight of them in 12 rows in a room the size of a basketball court. I haven't had an "office" to go to work in since 2000. I've shared spaces with anywhere from three to all of my co-workers. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and…

"Private offices with doors that close" - that's the standard at Fog Creek Software, the company behind Stack Overflow, Trello, and other great products. Microsoft also provides offices (or at least used to). These companies might be on to something. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-creek-... An opposing perspective: note that the cost for private offices is very high vs. cubes. Assuming Class A…

Your employer might get some, all, or even more than the $3,500 differential back through increased productivity, less churn, etc.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#119

Post by triceratops »

trunnell wrote: post #113
cratermoon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd happily go back to working in the office. If I had an actual office , not a 4-foot wide folding table that's part of a line of eight of them in 12 rows in a room the size of a basketball court. I haven't had an "office" to go to work in since 2000. I've shared spaces with anywhere from three to all of my co-workers. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and…

"Private offices with doors that close" - that's the standard at Fog Creek Software, the company behind Stack Overflow, Trello, and other great products. Microsoft also provides offices (or at least used to). These companies might be on to something. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-creek-... An opposing perspective: note that the cost for private offices is very high vs. cubes. Assuming Class A…

Why are you assuming employees are currently getting the cost savings from cubicles?

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#120

Post by 3gg »

trunnell wrote: post #113
cratermoon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd happily go back to working in the office. If I had an actual office , not a 4-foot wide folding table that's part of a line of eight of them in 12 rows in a room the size of a basketball court. I haven't had an "office" to go to work in since 2000. I've shared spaces with anywhere from three to all of my co-workers. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and…

"Private offices with doors that close" - that's the standard at Fog Creek Software, the company behind Stack Overflow, Trello, and other great products. Microsoft also provides offices (or at least used to). These companies might be on to something. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/12/29/the-new-fog-creek-... An opposing perspective: note that the cost for private offices is very high vs. cubes. Assuming Class A…

Thanks for the link, but I'm not sure about the conclusion. Why do you think the company would reimburse you for $3500/mo for freeing up office space or using less of it?

A company basically pays you for your cost of living. That's why pay is high in the Bay Area or NY, and why you take a massive pay cut when you move out. If you choose to work remotely or sign up for shitty work conditions, they are not going to reimburse any of the costs you just saved them.

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