Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work • Hacker News Board

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#71

Post by Frost1x » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

toptal wrote: post #48

I’ve written about this extensively https://www.toptal.com/insights/future-of-work/remote-not-re... The problem is they built campuses and feel stupid about devaluing them. Combine that with a backwards mindset and, for most companies, the situation becomes clear. It’s really that simple.

You mean executives didn't need to build giant monuments to themselves they can sit in and command from upon high down for whatever idea they justified it with to attract talent and they only needed to, I don't know, compensate people adequately with reasonable work life balance to retain people, perhaps with a mixture of interesting work to attract some types of talent?

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#72

Post by lottaFLOPS » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

todd3834 wrote: post #10

I’ve been part of a lot of these conversations and it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. The trick is how to please everyone. It is easy to say, let those who want to come back come and those who don’t stay home. However those that want to go back say it is because they want to be surrounded by their coworkers. Having gone back to the office vo…

I really appreciated how this captures the varied perspectives on remote vs. in-office work in a nuanced way.

I also think you hit the nail on the head in explaining the incentives and default behavior we’ve seen from executives. Before the pandemic, I heard the same explanation for open office plans, despite intense dislike from many: “well, around 50% don’t like this, but we can’t please everyone.”

The only solution I can think of is not mandating a single solution. Allowing individuals/teams to choose what works best for them is more complicated and risky, but also offers the greatest potential. I’m not sure there’s a way to make execs feel more comfortable with this approach though. It is risky, and it requires a lot of trust.

I’m hopeful as more companies take the leap to flexible remote policies, the results will speak for themselves. If the fears among the more conservative/risk-averse execs aren’t realized, opinions may soften. At the same time, I’m expecting there will be enough anecdotes to serve as “evidence” for any staunchly-held perspective.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#73

Post by markus_zhang » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

I think it really depends. I for one prefer going back to the office, with a small twist that I wish it was just me who is in the office. Being alone in the whole floor gives me focus and productivity, plus the office has an almost unlimited supply of soft drink and bubbled water :D

I'm actually wondering if there is a way to rent a sealed medium size office space (think something around 10-15 m2) with high-speed internet, table, chair and a refrigrator with a moderate fee. I absolutely hate open spaces. For God's sake if it's open why not I go to a Starbuck? It's just a few bucks a day!

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#74

Post by jacquesm » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

"Gansch het raderwerk staat stil, als uw machtige arm het wil"

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Raderwer...

Translated: "All the gearworks grind to a halt if your powerful arm commands it so".

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#75

Post by indymike » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

When it comes to work from home vs. go back to the office, the question for leadership is, "Is it working now?"

For some, you have to work at a specific location. This is what it is.

If work from home works, you have an opportunity to hire some great people that less flexible employers are going to shed. You also can start reducing the costs - offices are very expensive compared to a reasonable work from home allowance.

If it's not working, then it's time to go back to the office and hope you can out compete your competitors. Your competition will be hiring away anyone not happy with the office environment, who wants to move or hates their commute. Your competitors will have lower costs because as they eliminate a huge chunk of office costs, you'll be making rent and utility payments. This is a Pareto level advantage.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#76

Post by lcam84 » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

todd3834 wrote: post #10

I’ve been part of a lot of these conversations and it is important to note that there is a significant percentage of employees that want to go back to the office. The trick is how to please everyone. It is easy to say, let those who want to come back come and those who don’t stay home. However those that want to go back say it is because they want to be surrounded by their coworkers. Having gone back to the office vo…

You don't need to work from home we can find/create spaces near your with like minded people in your community. Productivity is not the main reason big tech want people back to cubicles. They need to justify the spaceship shaped offices they built and also they need keep our consumption high. As describe in this post that's also trending on HN [0], the best way to do this is to remove spare time on our lives (ex: long commutes). https://www.raptitude.com/2010/07/your-lifestyle-has-already...

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#77

Post by ashtonkem » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

I personally believe that executives get an ego boost from physically seeing people in an office working. Given the productive year tech has been being full remote, and the active threat by a large chunk of the work force to quit if the execs try and make us return, one can only conclude that the execs are motivated by something else other than business need.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#78

Post by lanstin » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #44

noir_lord wrote: post #35

Company I work for is remote-only and has been for years. Since they already had that in place the pandemic didn't really hit them from an organisational point of view. The reason I was so interested in the job (other than the fact the work is interesting) was because they where remote-only before pandemic - so there was no risk of "right, it's over, everyone back in the building". I'm not sure what someone would hav…

> with everything setup how you want is just a no-brainer. I had an earlier comment on how those against WFH might change their mind if they had a good chair. It might work in reverse too. The office might be far less annoying to people if they had a budget for equipment or at least got high quality equipment.

And a window where you can see hummingbirds and crows and toddlers. And get some fresh air.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#79

Post by UncleMeat » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #49

TigeriusKirk wrote: post #38

If a company isn't allowing remote work, they're voluntarily cutting themselves off from a large portion of the available labor pool. That's their choice, but they can never again complain about a shortage of talent. Which should affect their ability to participate in work visa programs, for example.

This cuts both ways: people from wealthy countries with high cost of living can never complain about competition from people who will be happy to take 1/4 of their salary to do the same job.

The only solution for this is organized labor activism. At an individual level, everybody wants to be outsourced to but not outsourced from and nobody can prevent this at an individual level.

Re: Big tech companies are at war with employees over remote work

#80

Post by InvaderFizz » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

New_California wrote: post #14

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

I recommend unionizing (a federally protected activity) to enable negotiating for benefits (including remote work) collectively. This presidential administration is already gunning for Big Tech, strike while the iron is hot (for more robust worker rights). You can be well compensated and still demand a seat at the corporate table as a stakeholder in a business.

Unions are cancer on private companies and should be abolished.

While I emphasize with your feeling on unions, having seen first hand how they operate, your tact is not convincing anyone and is just virtue signaling.

The thing that I never see addressed with unions is what they are and what they do. The easiest way to look at unions is thus:

Unions exist for the explicit purpose of enriching their members(not necessarily all equally), at the expense of all others.

I have two issues with unions:

1. They have been given this deity status as an unassailable good thing.

2. Federal Union laws that force employers to fire the employees they hired to work during the strike, even if they can be reasonably certain that union employees that used violence against property and person during the strike are the ones they have to bring back.

Want to bargain as a group? Sure, more power to you. But either side should have the option of walking away and severing all ties. The union can do this, the employer is held hostage by federal labor law.