Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do I do this? There's a logical train here, that I think you're attempting to work around. 1. Nasa is a jobs program 2. A jobs program that produces good tech? 3. Yeah, but what did SLS produce? 4. You know that SLS is not NASA (is what I should have said). But I actually said was close enough. 3 makes zero sense unless the poster believes NASA ~= SLS. I find it fun that we're saying the same thing (NASA != SLS),…
Given that this was all different people, I'm not sure why you chose to interpret #3 as not knowing that NASA != SLS. As I said, critics focus on SLS. I could easily have made statement 3, and I work at an org with plenty of NASA funding for non-jobs-program projects. And if I were to go out on a limb, I suspect if you asked person 1 what they were mad about, it's probably the human spaceflight program, not science.
Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
231–240 of 259 posts
Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hell no. Space exploration and expansion should absolutely NOT be in the hands of corporations but an government funded entity that contracts out work as we have now. If every government program should be profitable.
I'd vote for NASA + private enterprise combo similar to DARPA programs. Leadership in the gov, execution in the private industry.
Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is Blue Origin slow, or is SpaceX really, really fast?
Yes and yes. I expect Blue Origin are playing catch up with star ship. New Glenn could only self land the booster, not the upper stage. There's no way that could compete with star ship, it almost doesn't compete with falcon heavy.
Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is the benefit of living on Mars, rather than a space based habitat that can attach to and mine asteroids or small moons for extra resources? Living in a "large" gravity well seems like all negatives to me in terms of expansion and resource extraction.
To be fair, living in 0g is even less plausible than living in 0.3g long term. In particular, there is a good chance that animals can't reproduce in 0g - those that have been tried have definitely been unable (including insects and chicken - there is still a chance mammals could).
Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
#235Between this and JEDI I get the impression Jeff feels he simply deserves things, regardless of the established protocols which decide he does not, and he’s more than willing to take the government to court to prove it. Maybe that’s just the kind of attitude it takes to be the richest person alive, but it definitely rubs me the wrong way. Not like he cares who it rubs or in which way, of course.
Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
#236Well, if $3 billion is all it costs to send someone to the moon why doesn't he do it himself instead of asking NASA to buy his services? Probably NASA probably has some other hardware, know-how, and people that Blue Origins doesn't. But how much would that cost? Another 10 billion? 30 billion? Bezos has plenty to spare for that too.
Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
#237Blue Origin makes Bezos look like a sad little boy that wants to fit in with he big boys but fails miserably. BO feels like a cheap SpaceX knock-off. His ride over the Karman line (which they tried to point out as the border to to space so bad on their channels) really convinced me of that. Bezos lacks a vision for space, it's just a hobby for him and he fails at executing the Amazon playbook there.
Just keep in mind that there are regular engineers like any of us working at Blue Origin and giving their best to achieve something, make a living and tackle really hard problems. Some viewpoints expressed on HN feel like social media fed hatred, people often forget that there is a massive army of brilliant people doing stuff that most engineers would dream of. There are Facebook/Google engineers working on advertise…
Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps, but at least athletes put in the work themselves, rather than exploiting and taking the credit for the work of others.
> exploiting Employing > credit Credit always goes to the leader. Without Bezos, none of Blue Origin would have happened. Olympic athletes rely on uncredited trainers and usually a dedicated family to financially support them.
Anyone with the means could have founded Blue Origin, hired the same people, and gotten the same result. Jeff Bezos' money was necessary to the company's success, he was not.
>Olympic athletes rely on uncredited trainers and usually a dedicated family to financially support them.
Olympic athletes credit their trainers and family all the time. And, again, they do the actual work.
Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mars is already uninhabitable, so what would we gain from moving to Mars? The Earth is not going to become as bad as Mars with any possible disaster smaller than a planetary collision. Also, a Mars colony that could survive indefinitely if the Earth is wiped out is almost certainly impossible, given the extreme conditions on Mars' surface. We don't even know if there is enough water ice on Mars today to sustain a hum…
> Also, a Mars colony that could survive indefinitely if the Earth is wiped out is almost certainly impossible, given the extreme conditions on Mars' surface. Let's say you have a Martian colony of 100,000 people. It is self-sufficient in basic goods but still relies on imports from Earth for many advanced goods. Something terrible happens, and imports from Earth are no longer possible. Those 100,000 people have a ch…
The answer will be die. There is no way to survive on Mars for any period of time without access to high technology, you will be dependent on it for electricity, for water, for farming, for pressurized ventilation, for air recirculation, for robots that can work on the surface (e.g. To keep solar panels clean, or for any kind of construction on the surface), to dig tunnels through rock to expand as resources dry up, and to produce the majority of the more basic goods you need. 100k people is very little for a functioning isolated economy on Earth, on Mars it would be much more complicated.
> The atmosphere of Mars is around 2.8% nitrogen. There are likely to also be nitrate minerals in the Martian soil and rock.
The much denser atmosphere ON earth is 78% nitrogen (see also my next point for a comparison), there is plenty of nitrogen accumulated in the soil, and still it is one of the major factors limiting plant growth. Any nitrite deposits on Mars are likely to be contaminated with other toxic chemicals, like much of the Martian soil and probably much of the water ice.
> Mars' atmosphere is 95% CO2. You can extract oxygen from CO2 by electrolysis. The MOXIE experiment on Perseverance has demonstrated this.
O2 is about 21% of the Earth's atmosphere. Mars's atmosphere is less than 0.6% of the Earth's atmosphere, even at the ridiculously low Martian surface temperatures. So even if you can convert CO2 to O2 with 100% efficiency, and even if Mars' atmosphere were 100% CO2, you would still only get 0.02 times the O2 you have on Earth.
This is extremely relevant not only for breathing, but because the only kinds of batteries we can imagine that have anything close to the power efficiency (Wh/kg) of fossil fuels utilize atmospheric oxygen to get most of the power.
> On human timescales (decades to millennia), Martian atmosphere lost to space isn't significant.
Fair enough, but it's still going to be impossible to recover water or helium or other gases we leak from Mars' rarefied atmosphere.
> I think Musk is going to try to establish a settlement on Mars, initially with tens of people, then hundreds, then thousands. And becoming fully self-sustaining is going to be their long-term goal. But I don't think actual full self-sustaining status is going to be achieved for several centuries.
I don't believe Musk will achieve anything more than tragically killing some volunteers on Mars. I also don't think a permanent self sustaining colony on Mars is actually possible or even desirable, for all of the reasons I listed, with any kind of foreseeable future tech (of course, paradigm changes in physics or chemistry could have completely unpredictable effects).
Edit to add: it's also important to remember that we do not know if humans can actually survive long term in 0.3g, or with what impact on their health. This will have to be tested on animals for years before actually attempting a human base.
Re: Jeff Bezos loses attempt to block the Moon-landing contract NASA gave to SpaceX
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
Humans surviving long term off of Earth, I think, is still just a pipe dream and pure sci-fi. I agree with the idea, I think it is something humanity should attempt, but it is atleast 100 years too soon to even attempt. It is like trying to build a space station in the 18th or 19th century.
What's wrong with trying now? (By "now" I mean, "in the next 20 years".) So long as nobody gets killed, if it fails, at least we can say we've tried. Trying now may bring forward the date at which it is actually feasible compared to putting off trying. Even if people die–and they may–if they make a free and fully informed choice to sign up to something which may risk their lives, and they end up dying as a result – w…