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As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

economist.com

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Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#161

Post by slibhb »

kelnos wrote: post #151
slibhb wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, having the one black or gay character in a tv show is obvious tokenism, particularly when portrayed as shallow stereotype, but it seems to me as if any attempt at representation nowadays is written off as "political" or tokenism, even when it's sincere. This is the crux of the issue. To me, "attempts at representation" are demeaning by definition . Giving someone a part because of their skin color or sex or s…

> Giving someone a part because of their skin color or sex or sexual orientation is demeaning. I really hope you're not suggesting that the reason why nowadays casts aren't solely composed of straight, cis, white people is because all of the unqualified other actors are being given jobs they don't deserve. Maybe "attempt at representation" can also mean producers, writers, casting directors, etc. just finally realizi…

> I really hope you're not suggesting that the reason why nowadays casts aren't solely composed of straight, cis, white people is because all of the unqualified other actors are being given jobs they don't deserve.

I can't parse this, sorry. Too many negatives.

> Maybe "attempt at representation" can also mean producers, writers, casting directors, etc. just finally realizing that the world is full of more than just white people, and maybe stories should be written that include those people too. It doesn't have to be some awkward forced diversity where it doesn't make sense.

This is exactly the issue. Good art does not come from earnest people "trying to tell important stories about more than just white people".

> Sure, and yet I just see a lot of hand waving about all this rampant non-genuine diversity without any evidence that this is widespread. Certainly that sort of thing exists: of course we've all cringed at a character or casting decision that was clearly made for the wrong reasons. But I just don't think I see that happening that often these days. Maybe broaden the types of TV shows and movies you watch to stuff that isn't targeted squarely at straight, cis, white people?

I'm unsure how I could provide "evidence" of a movie being "non-genuine". Do I need to explain how I calibrate my Genuineness-index? Should I show my work? We're talking about movies. If I watch something and can't get into it because I judge it to be "non-genuine," I'm allowed to say so without offering evidence and, of course, you're allowed to disagree.

It's too funny to be accused of watching "stuff that is targeted squarely at straight, cis, white people". 90% of the movies I watch are foreign movies, low budget/arty American movies, or classics. You're assuming I'm a bigot when, in reality, I'm making a very basic point about where art comes from (not from people trying to "pursue equity, diversity, and inclusivity").

Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#162

Post by kbos87 »

This is already happening. I work for a large b2b saas company - many of our attention-oriented metrics (eg traffic, top of funnel lead generation) are off by 20-40% year over year. We are hearing that peers are seeing the same thing. People are sick of screens and relishing the offline world, which is even touching B2B.

Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#163

Post by paulcole »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #104
citizenpaul wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> amazed that companies haven't figured out that advertisements are far less effective than they claim to be I was once asked to do some stats on the marketing effectiveness of a company I was at. Not my job but I really hated a couple of the people in the marketing dept so I went at the task anyway. I had long had suspicious that the advertising was mostly smoke and mirrors so I was glad to find out that I was right…

On the other hand a good marketing person is worth gold. In one company I contracted at they had a marketing person who was super proactive and really worked social media , the press and other channels. She pretty much singlehandedly made the company into a known player in their field. Same probably goes for good salespeople. But there aren’t too many people of that caliber. Most just go through the motions.

> But there aren’t too many people of that caliber. Most just go through the motions.

This is true of every field from doctors to lawyers to software developers. Most people are pretty average at their jobs.

Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#164

Post by slibhb »

kelnos wrote: post #149
slibhb wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I doubt there is anyone in any minority group who feels mocked by greater representation. But, as a Gay Black Asian Latino yourself, you can probably tell us what it's like. Are you unfamiliar with the concept of tokenism? To me and to many others, though not to you, certain parts seem to exist purely to collect diversity points. This seems like pandering to me, and I expect it is insulting to anyone who views it t…

> Are you unfamiliar with the concept of tokenism? Just feels like there's a bit of goalpost-moving in this subthread. The poster farther up was annoyed that there are shows where seemingly all the characters have some non-cis-straight-white characteristic to them. And now you're talking about nearly the opposite, all-cis-straight-white casts except for a token something-else. Which is it, eh? If y'all want to dising…

Maybe all the people on the internet who disagree with you don't secretly meet in the back room and coordinate their racism.

Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#165

Post by eplanit »

dragonwriter wrote: post #37
jacob2484 wrote: post #35

How much woke virtue signaling can one take? Even Bill Maher agrees.

> Even Bill Maher agrees. Bill Maher is a shallow elite contrarian, not a progressive that it would make sense to say “Even” about when he agrees with criticism of something perceived to be on the left.

Well, a guy with a show called "Politically Incorrect" is supposed to be a contrarian.

The Left is so extremist now that it has lost any sense of humor (Maher had to point out the sarcasm to his audience), and it rejects any critical analysis of its agenda/narrative. Mao would be proud.

Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#166

Post by CapricornNoble »

krapp wrote: post #87
ipaddr wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forced unreal diversity makes things unbelievable. The black and white couple with only gay Asian children under 10 with a Latino teenager makes everything into a farce. All of those things happen but not all at once all of the time. It's labelled as progressive but it's regressive and mocks each minority group along the way.

> The black and white couple with only gay Asian children under 10 with a Latino teenager makes everything into a farce. That doesn't happen. No one is writing movies where people who aren't Latino just have Latino children to score "progressive points" or whatever. Interracial couples do exist. Asians and Latinos exist, and their portrayal in media isn't any more "progressive" than portraying any other race or ethni…

>>>I doubt there is anyone in any minority group who feels mocked by greater representation.

I'll have my (future) sons watching old James Bond and Indiana Jones movies before I ever show them most of the crap that Hollywood shovels to us as black males. A strong white character is a better role model than a weak black one.

My coworker is mixed Jamaican/ Italian and a staunch Catholic. He and his black/Hawaiian wife homeschool their sons (both early teens I think). He shared his difficulty with finding media content for them to consume that isn't heavily laden with homosexuality, especially in the black male characters. I suggested he introduce them to ST: TNG, Babylon 5, and ST:DS9. Worf, Geordi, Sisko, and Dr. Baxter are all useful role models. Those were positive and inspirational black characters.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/emasculation-black-male-image...

https://negromanosphere.com/hollywood-emasculation-black-mal...

https://youtu.be/0aYo8nxedOM "Boskoe100 Thinks There's An Agenda to Make the Black Male Image Effeminate"

https://youtu.be/gyjblZqw2dE Brandon Tatum's take on a recent rap video heavily depicting prison homosexuality

Dave Chappelle shined a light on this 15 years ago: https://youtu.be/oCahQtiEYb4

This sort of content is nowhere near as popular or desired as the bubble-dwellers in LA/Atlanta/SF/NYC seem to think it is. One might retort "why does someone else's representation negatively impact you?" IMO, the answer should be obvious. Amplifying the "edge cases" of representation colors the expectations and perceptions of community outsiders who don't necessarily understand that they are not indicative of the majority. Wealthy drug-dealer rappers are a tiny fraction of the black male community, but walk into any nightclub in Asia and SOMEBODY will look at you askance and question why you don't dress like 50 Cent. I don't sell cocaine but that media representation of someone who does impacts how others interact with me. How long before I'm dealing with women asking me "Why don't you wear lip gloss, sparkles, and a dress like those other black men I see on TV/Instagram?"

https://www.vogue.com/article/billy-porter-oscars-red-carpet...

So yeah this stuff feels like they are mocking us, and no representation would be better than representation of this sort. Malcom X was right (and his quote below is my favorite one to drop into HN discussions). https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8869214-the-white-liberal-i...

Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#167

Post by Slow_Hand »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #159
Slow_Hand wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What element of Dune do you think would suffer by not having an ‘R’ rating? It’s not as if the book is reliant on anything exceptionally violent or obscene. Probably the darkest element is the reference to The Baron’s rape of young people. Frankly that’s better off as something to be implied and not depicted. I think you can get away with enough in a PG-13 to suit the tone of this story. Watching the recent trailer y…

Well for one thing it's about drugs...

Eh, Barely. Saying Dune is about drugs is like saying Back to the Future was about plutonium. It’s more of a plot element that facilitates the novel’s themes. It’s a resource that shapes the world and gives the characters something to compete over and control.

The story revolves around spice but it’s not ABOUT spice.

In any case, it still doesn’t strike me as the kind of fictional drug that’s calling out for restrictions. It’s depiction can be mild enough to circumvent an unwanted movie rating and still not compromise the story.

Narcotics featured heavily in Batman Begins and that movie still had a PG-13. Again, I don’t see what about Dune’s story is crying out for an R rating in order to be true to the story.

Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#168

Post by thoughty »

hotcold wrote: post #46
hmsshagatsea wrote: post #13

How about hollywood starts making GOOD content again?

Absolutely not, the central theme of every movie, sporting event, advertisement, or news article must be DIVERSITY DIVERSITY DIVERSITY!

Not sure why you are getting downvoted, but you are are right. I belong to one of those diverse groups and I find it insulting to say the least. It seems like the least effort to tick the checkbox. The character doesnt have to be my color for me to relate to him/her

Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#169

Post by spaetzleesser »

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #153
spaetzleesser wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand a good marketing person is worth gold. In one company I contracted at they had a marketing person who was super proactive and really worked social media , the press and other channels. She pretty much singlehandedly made the company into a known player in their field. Same probably goes for good salespeople. But there aren’t too many people of that caliber. Most just go through the motions.

> On the other hand a good marketing person is worth gold. I don't deny this, but I think you can say this for any position that ultimately can deliver something. A good PM, a good IT manager, or just the accepted good engineer. People that really want to contribute will work on what matters most and set their egos aside. I say this as someone who has been a PM before and realized it was not the most critical functio…

I think a good salesperson or marketing person can bring way more value than a good PM or IT manager usually can.

Re: As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an “attention recession”

#170

Post by lmm »

ehnto wrote: post #9
akudha wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this will result in more outrageous, more clickbait junk from media outlets, desperate for audience attention. Even more than it is now. I am spending more time on YouTube too. I used to watch Netflix, but it has been downhill last 3 years or so.

What's strange to me is that while YouTube seems to be stealing a lot of attention, the creators on the platform are so often complaining the platform and having to build out non-platform revenue streams in order for it to make sense. Is it that they expect more than their fair share, or is YouTube leveraging their creators more than they should, or are adblockers the issue? I'm not sure what it is, it just surprises…

Isn't it simply that there's a lot less revenue coming in to YouTube? Most users aren't paying any monthly subscription, and the global audience is probably much less valuable to advertisers (on average) than e.g. a US cable TV audience.
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