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Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

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Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#101
post #74
post #16

> I am an AI skeptic. I am baffled by anyone who isn’t. I don’t see any path from continuous improvements to the (admittedly impressive) ‘machine learning’ field that leads to a general AI - I share the skepticism towards any progress towards 'general AI' - I don't think that we're remotely close or even on the right path in any way. - That doesn't make me a skeptic towards the current state of machine learning thoug…

> I don’t see any path from continuous improvements to the (admittedly impressive) ‘machine learning’ field that leads to a general AI > I share the skepticism towards any progress towards 'general AI' - I don't think that we're remotely close or even on the right path in any way. This isn't how science works though. Quoting the wikipedia page for Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" ( https://en.w…

This seems akin to Asimov's "Elevator Effect": https://baixardoc.com/preview/isaac-asimov-66-essays-on-the-... starting p 221.

I agree that one would think that Science Fiction writers would have enough of an imagination to be able to consider alternate futures (Cory CYA's by saying such a scenario would make a good SF story) - but there are already promising approaches to AGI: Minsky's "Society of Mind", Jeff Hawkins' neuro-based approaches, the fairly new Hinton idea GLOM: https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/04/16/1021871/geoffrey... .

“By 2029, computers will have human-level intelligence,” Kurzweil said in an interview at SXSW 2017.

Time to get to work, eh? https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?msg=Kurzweil%20AGI%...

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#102
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is that knowing what you are doing means error free output.

It's more like applying the technology with caution and accountability when you already know beforehand that the output is not error-free.

They never promised that the output would be error free, having output with errors is still useful for many applications. And the issues you are talking about got fixed as soon as it was discovered and since then Google has made sure to always diversify their datasets by race. Nowadays that is common knowledge that you need to do it, but back then it wasn't obvious that a model wouldn't generalize across human races and it is much thanks to that mistake that everyone now knows it is an issue.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in favor of changing the terminology from AI and ML to something along the lines of 'prediction model' so that the idea of machines 'thinking' is replaced with them 'predicting'. it's just easier for our mushy meat brains to think that AI and ML means that it'll lead to general AI or as I like to call it 'general purpose decision maker'. it's all about the language!

In not so long past, there was another popular expression - "computer-aided ...", which was quite fit for the practical use (like CAD for design, CAT for translation etc) Perhaps, CAI for inference or insight would express it more fairly. Alternatively, AI could've stood for 'automated inference', but sure it's all too late to rebrand. We humans still not clear about nature of our own intelligence, yet already claime…

I think inference isn't the right term either. I think current ML is more like automated inductive reasoning.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#104
post #63
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>simple machines. Ooof. Premed dropout here, so admittedly not an expert in human biology but this is a wild statement. A neuron is simple in the same way a transistor is simply a silicon sandwich doped with metals. A parlor trick is something that once you understand, is straightforward to implement on your own. Are you arguing that anyone now or in the foreseeable future could simply recreate the abilities of a hum…

I'm arguing that animal or lesser intelligence is built around hundreds of thousands of parlor tricks operating in a complex ensemble. There's a bias toward the marvel of human intelligence that causes some people to dismiss ML for the same underlying reasons we don't try to put a square peg in a round hole after infancy. Side note: disagree all you like but starting a rebuttal with "oof" is the kind of dismissive la…

> I'm arguing that animal or lesser intelligence is built around hundreds of thousands of parlor tricks operating in a complex ensemble.

Until ML/AI can perform a single one of those parlor tricks without the constant direction of human intelligence, there’s no reason to stop marveling.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is quantitative in understanding the meaning of a name? We don't know that the brain runs on "numbers" (and no, it's no just like a "computer"). To respond to your edit: That is not brown... there is a whole science of color perception, have a look.

It’s not a computer, but it is quantified.

Numbers implies you can do mathematical operations on them that makes sense.

So how would you quantify "good" or "bad"? You can't unless you also answer what "good" + "bad" should be. In psychology they just assume that mapping those onto 1 and 5 makes sense, so "good" + "bad" = 5 + 1 = 6, but that doesn't make sense since it would imply that "good" is the same as "bad" + "bad" + "bad" + "bad" + "bad". You get similar but different issues if you start including negative numbers, or if you just use relative measures and don't have a proper zero, no matter what you do numbers doesn't properly represent feelings as we know them.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#106
post #16

> I am an AI skeptic. I am baffled by anyone who isn’t. I don’t see any path from continuous improvements to the (admittedly impressive) ‘machine learning’ field that leads to a general AI - I share the skepticism towards any progress towards 'general AI' - I don't think that we're remotely close or even on the right path in any way. - That doesn't make me a skeptic towards the current state of machine learning thoug…

Isn't that what's meant by "admittedly impressive"?

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#107
I'm tired of the Norvig vs. Chomsky style debates about what is cognition/intelligence/learning. I think this piece does rehash that debate somewhat, but it's not at all the focus.

It's key contributions are about the mainstream domination of quantitative vs. qualitative methods, especially in this paragraph:

> Quantitative disciplines are notorious for incinerating the qualitative ele­ments on the basis that they can’t be subjected to mathematical analysis. What’s left behind is a quantitative residue of dubious value… but at least you can do math with it. It’s the statistical equivalent to looking for your keys under a streetlight because it’s too dark where you dropped them.

and also of note is the "veneer of empirical facewash that provides plausible deniability", for discrimination, and for doing a poor job but continuing to be rewarded for it.

If I had to summarize it would be:

- The ML/AI community, which includes the researchers, practitioners, and the evangelists, are broadly utopian in what they think they can achieve. They are overconfident even in the domain of detecting the face of potential burglars in a home security camera, never mind in terms of creating new life with AGI. I think Doctorow's critique equally applies to "algorithms" even only as complex as a fancy Excel sheet, but he focuses on ML/AI as the most common source of this excess of optimism, that recording data and running it through a model is almost certainly the _most sensible thing to do_ for any given problem.

- If there is a manufactured consensus that the almost purely quantitative approach is the _most sensible thing to do_, then any failures or short-comings can be hand-waved away. Say sorry, "the model/algorithm did it", and just ignore the issue or apply a minor manual fix. This is a huge benefit for decision-makers wishing to maintain their status/livelihoods in both the public and private sector. Crucially, this excuse works if you're just ineffective, or if you're a bad actor.

Note that this is a critique of CEOs and government officials, more than of engineers -- we would only be complicit by association. If there is a critique for engineers, it's that we provide fodder for the excess of optimism in summary point 1 because we love playing with our tools, and that we allow ourselves to be the scapegoat for summary point 2.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#108
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t see any path from continuous improvements to the (admittedly impressive) ‘machine learning’ field that leads to a general AI > I share the skepticism towards any progress towards 'general AI' - I don't think that we're remotely close or even on the right path in any way. This isn't how science works though. Quoting the wikipedia page for Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" ( https://en.w…

This seems akin to Asimov's "Elevator Effect": https://baixardoc.com/preview/isaac-asimov-66-essays-on-the-... starting p 221. I agree that one would think that Science Fiction writers would have enough of an imagination to be able to consider alternate futures (Cory CYA's by saying such a scenario would make a good SF story) - but there are already promising approaches to AGI: Minsky's "Society of Mind", Jeff Hawkin…

Elevator effect: https://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/elevator-eff...

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#109
post #16

> I am an AI skeptic. I am baffled by anyone who isn’t. I don’t see any path from continuous improvements to the (admittedly impressive) ‘machine learning’ field that leads to a general AI - I share the skepticism towards any progress towards 'general AI' - I don't think that we're remotely close or even on the right path in any way. - That doesn't make me a skeptic towards the current state of machine learning thoug…

Yeah I agree - during undergrad, I spent a few years studying neuroscience, and I was very let down by my first ML/AI course. Compared to what I had learned about the brain, what we called an "ANN" just seemed like such a silly toy.

The more you learn about neurobiology, the more apparent it is that there are so many levels of computation going on - everything from dendritic structure, to cellular metabolism, to epigenetics has an effect on information processing. The idea that we could reach some approximation of "general intelligence" by just scaling up some very large matrix operations just seemed like a complete joke.

However, as you say, that doesn't mean what we've done in ML is not worthwhile and interesting. We might have over-reached thinking ML is ready to drive a car without major fourth-coming advancements, but use-cases like style transfer and DLSS 2 are downright magical. Even if we just made marginal improvements in current ML, I'm sure there is a ton of untapped potential in terms of applying this tech to novel use-cases.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#110
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the term “data driven algorithm“. It makes it clear to everyone involved that what we’re doing is just adjusting an algorithm based on the data we have. No-one in their right minds would confuse that with building a true “A.I.”.

What about “data derived algorithm”? The algorithm itself isn’t really driven by data after it has been designed anymore.

I mean if we want to be really accurate, we could say something like "highly dimensional data-derived function"
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