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Who will pay to protect tech giants from rising seas?

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Re: Who will pay to protect tech giants from rising seas?

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech companies generally get away with paying less than their fair share: https://fortune.com/2019/12/06/big-tech-taxes-google-faceboo...

10 billion a year in global tax avoidance for those tech companies combined doesn't sound like a lot considering their revenue is around 600 billion a year. Also consider that all the workers are also tax payers and they want the company to continue existing, their taxes would also go towards protecting the bay. Their tax dollars wouldn't exist in California if those tech companies weren't there.

10 billion a year of tax money can fund a lot of stuff. Just because it is a fraction of a 600 billion does not make it somehow better.

Re: Who will pay to protect tech giants from rising seas?

#22
post #12

MV, EPA and MP becoming Venice. Giving the unstoppably rising price of real estate nobody is going to move away from such a valuable land, even if it is covered by 3 feet of water (to illustrate - imagine the gold rush if real estate development in the shallow waters of the Bay would get allowed today). And once we get used to building in water i can see a new SF built few miles off the Ocean beach :) It can possibly…

It's cheaper still to build barriers, especially since the sea level rise is gradual.

It's just that if you think of what we're going to spend worldwide to mitigate the harms of sea level rise, it seems incredibly stupid to be burning subsidized fossil fuels. That's without even factoring in the other problems climate change will bring. A proper carbon taxing scheme with tariffs on countries that don't play along would make so much sense.

One way or another the bill will be paid. Nature is a relentless debt collector.

Re: Who will pay to protect tech giants from rising seas?

#24
post #22
post #12

MV, EPA and MP becoming Venice. Giving the unstoppably rising price of real estate nobody is going to move away from such a valuable land, even if it is covered by 3 feet of water (to illustrate - imagine the gold rush if real estate development in the shallow waters of the Bay would get allowed today). And once we get used to building in water i can see a new SF built few miles off the Ocean beach :) It can possibly…

It's cheaper still to build barriers, especially since the sea level rise is gradual. It's just that if you think of what we're going to spend worldwide to mitigate the harms of sea level rise, it seems incredibly stupid to be burning subsidized fossil fuels. That's without even factoring in the other problems climate change will bring. A proper carbon taxing scheme with tariffs on countries that don't play along wou…

>It's cheaper still to build barriers

for some definition of cheaper. For full cost you need to factor in political costs of implementing such a a collective action as well as opportunity costs. And once built it needs to be maintained. It requires continuous involvement into political fight to insure that the maintenance is happening to avoid Katrina type situations. The implicit threat of non-maintenance becomes a tool of political blackmail and pressure. It makes for high-risk business environment which is just bad for business.

>it seems incredibly stupid to be burning subsidized fossil fuels.

well, removing the subsidies and decreasing the fossil fuel burn is an immediately available very low cost collective action to slow climate change and delay water rise... We can see how it's been going so far.

>A proper carbon taxing scheme with tariffs on countries that don't play along would make so much sense.

Russia for example has all the sanctions and tariffs (and when there is no tariff imposed from outside, Russia usually takes care about that by having self-inflicted inside tariff there :) so it is hard to make much more, and Russia is anyway going full-steam into that warmer future (the global warming was taught in middle school even back in 198x in USSR) pumping oil and gas like crazy. Many Russian territories are becoming much more conductive for living and doing agriculture there. Short of WWIII there is not much can be done here (and Russia is actively building bases in the North and Far East as well as new strategic weapons system - the point is that they don't bet much on global international cooperation :). I'm pointing at Russia because i know it better than other countries, and of course it may be that Russia is large outlier, yet i somehow think that a number of other countries are also not betting much on successful global international cooperation in particular when it comes to global warming.

Re: Who will pay to protect tech giants from rising seas?

#26
post #15

I wonder if some particular hard to establish fabs are going to move into market disturbance resistant vessels. Basically move the chipplant into an old aircraft carrier, stabilize in production mode with pillars and piers - and thus be encapsulated from local market turmoils, international politics and local politicians.Seasteading, without the sea, but all the negotiation benefits of mobility.

There are no old aircraft carriers. They get turned into museums or scrapped.

An aircraft carrier costs about $10bn. It's doable.

Re: Who will pay to protect tech giants from rising seas?

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 billion a year in global tax avoidance for those tech companies combined doesn't sound like a lot considering their revenue is around 600 billion a year. Also consider that all the workers are also tax payers and they want the company to continue existing, their taxes would also go towards protecting the bay. Their tax dollars wouldn't exist in California if those tech companies weren't there.

10 billion a year of tax money can fund a lot of stuff. Just because it is a fraction of a 600 billion does not make it somehow better.

It is across the entire world, it wouldn't be used in the bay area. They already pay taxes properly for all the workers and buildings they have in the bay area, if that isn't enough then they ought to raise those taxes since they should cover the cost of operating there.

Re: Who will pay to protect tech giants from rising seas?

#28
post #3

The government using the taxes paid to the local municipalities and state, because these companies are strong economic drivers for those areas. It's kind of how the NYC metro is not meant to break even, it cost the city money to run it, but it second order effect it is a huge economic driver thus worth footing the bill for

Kind of off topic but I wish I saw more improvement with the NYC subway for the money that goes into it.

As I understand it the system is so behind on updates and repairs that it would take decades to correct and I think there's a lot of graft and mishandling of funds that won't ever be investigated.

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