81–90 of 285 posts
I find his comment about hallucinating faces in the snow amusing given that humans hallucinate faces in things all the time. And then either post it to Reddit or have a religious experience.
Pareidolia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are you at all close to this space? I am. > The example Cory puts on policing My most upvoted comment on this website was discussing this exact scenario. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23655487 Could you perhaps clarify the generalization you're making about me and people like me so I can understand it?
Excellent. One problem in my mind that I don't see discussed enough -- and also not in your other post -- is that there is a large divide between those who use the technology (the cops in this case) and those who supply it, and there is no accountability in any of the two groups when something goes wrong. Like you write in your other post, "the system works (according to an objective function which maximizes arrests.…
That is all part of engineering to me, so by definition, I think many in the field are in fact, out to lunch.
> I am an AI skeptic. I am baffled by anyone who isn’t. I don’t see any path from continuous improvements to the (admittedly impressive) ‘machine learning’ field that leads to a general AI - I share the skepticism towards any progress towards 'general AI' - I don't think that we're remotely close or even on the right path in any way. - That doesn't make me a skeptic towards the current state of machine learning thoug…
I'm in favor of changing the terminology from AI and ML to something along the lines of 'prediction model' so that the idea of machines 'thinking' is replaced with them 'predicting'. it's just easier for our mushy meat brains to think that AI and ML means that it'll lead to general AI or as I like to call it 'general purpose decision maker'. it's all about the language!
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But I also don't think the engineers working in this space are as out to lunch as the author seems to imply. Are you at all close to this space? It sounds you may be underestimating corporate politics and the lack of rigour and ethical thought with which these systems are applied. The example Cory puts on policing -- and the many other examples you can find in Evgeny Morozov's book or "The End of Trust" -- are soli…
> Are you at all close to this space? I am. > The example Cory puts on policing My most upvoted comment on this website was discussing this exact scenario. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23655487 Could you perhaps clarify the generalization you're making about me and people like me so I can understand it?
> I am an AI skeptic. I am baffled by anyone who isn’t. I don’t see any path from continuous improvements to the (admittedly impressive) ‘machine learning’ field that leads to a general AI - I share the skepticism towards any progress towards 'general AI' - I don't think that we're remotely close or even on the right path in any way. - That doesn't make me a skeptic towards the current state of machine learning thoug…
Why I'm pro-AI: Neural nets.
I worked on object detection for several years at one company using traditional methods, predating TensorFlow by a few years. We had a very sophisticated pipeline that had a DSP front end and a classical boundary detection scheme with a little neural net. The very first SSDMobileNet we tried blew away 5 years worth of work with about two weeks of training and tuning.
Other peers of mine work in industrial manufacturing, and classification and segmentation with off the shelf NN's has revolutionized assembly line testing almost overnight.
So yes, DNNs absolutely do some things vastly better than previous technology. Hand's down.
Why I'm Anti-AI: hype
The class of problems addressed by recent developments in NN/DNN software have failed horribly in scaling to even modestly real-world, rational multi-tasking. ADAS level 5 is the poster child. When hype master Elon Musk backs away, that is telling.
We're on the bleeding edge here, IMHO we NEED to try everything. There's no telling which path has fruit. Look at elliptic curves: half a century with no applications, now they are the backbone of the internet. Yes, there will be BS, hype, snake oil, vaporware, but there will also be some amazing tech.
I say be patient and skeptical.
> But the idea that if we just get better at statistical inference, consciousness will fall out of it is wishful thinking. It’s a premise for an SF novel, not a plan for the future. My impression of Silicon Valley types like Ray Kurzweil in "The Age of Spiritual Machines" that if we wire up enough transistors somehow consciousness will somehow arise out of the material world. The somehow is not explained. Materialism…
You also seem to have just kicked the can down the road. "Consciousness arises from a field somehow, and the brain acts as a receiver somehow. The somehow is not explained."
This article is mostly a straw man, while still containing some valid ML criticism. I am a ML s(c|k)eptic too, in that popular conceptions of what ML is currently overpromise, often don't even understand what ML actually is, and are often just some layperson's imagination about what "artificial intelligence" might do. This article is the opposite. He's treating ML as basically a simple supervised architecture that do…
That's how I felt too. Most of the article is trying to pull us with an emotional attachment (mostly to racist things a computer will do if tasked to do important things). While that criticism is welcome, it's not specifically meaningful towards an argument against AGI. The only part that was seemed to be that statistical inference is not a path to AGI which is somehow backed up by the emotional stuff. What deep lear…
That executive and arranging function is the unknown. From whence cometh that characteristic of Dasein? That preponderance of concern with the act of being as Being?
It's a tough nut to crack, even in philosophical circles. To think that we're going to articially create it by any means other than accident or luck is hubris of the highest order.
> I am an AI skeptic. I am baffled by anyone who isn’t. I don’t see any path from continuous improvements to the (admittedly impressive) ‘machine learning’ field that leads to a general AI - I share the skepticism towards any progress towards 'general AI' - I don't think that we're remotely close or even on the right path in any way. - That doesn't make me a skeptic towards the current state of machine learning thoug…
It's explicitly right there in the essay...
> Machine learning has bequeathed us a wealth of automation tools that operate with high degrees of reliability to classify and act on data acquired from the real world. It’s cool!
> Brilliant people have done remarkable things with it.
You seem to be in agreement with the article but don't realize it.
Unfortunately it’s pretty clear from the article that Cory does not have much familiarity with the research going on in the field of machine learning, and is creating a straw man. Quite a lot of work is being done on causal inference, out-of-distribution generalization, fairness, etc. Just because that is not the focus of the big sexy AI posts from Google et al does not mean that the work isn’t being done. I’d also p…
I'll just note that while you start off saying Doctorow has no idea what he's talking about, you finish by pretty much fully agreeing with the essay.