501–510 of 533 posts
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People choose to exchange money for goods and services that improve their life. Rich people generally became rich by directly or indirectly providing goods and services that improved the lives of a great many people.
Rich people generally became rich by inheriting lots of money. https://ips-dc.org/the_self-made_hallucination_of_americas_r...
> Milton pled not guilty to the criminal charges in a Manhattan courtroom Thursday afternoon. He was freed on a $100 million bond secured against two of his properties in Utah. He is barred from contacting investors.
I saw a story a while ago somewhere about people selling houses for "wait what" amounts obviously more than they were worth, as a way to funnel cash around.
I wonder if the properties in question ($50m each?) were independently valued as such, or if the properties were deemed appropriately equitable (if that's the right way to put it) on the back of "I paid this much for this property".
If the latter, it's possible the bond's value is itself tied to a payout. Which is a bit meta.
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Traditional car stocks are at bargain( ) prices now. ( ) some may read that as sane, or trading according to fundamentals.
If you want some market crash hedges they are perfect. Car companies are treated as government institutions. BMW and Volkswagen used to produce tanks. The German government will ask them too again if they start struggling to much. Companies like Fiat or Ferrari are as big a part of Italian national pride as rooting for their football team. Hyundai is 10% of South Korea's entire economy. The car industry is political.…
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Traditional car stocks are at bargain( ) prices now. ( ) some may read that as sane, or trading according to fundamentals.
Only if your hypothesis is that companies like Mazda won't wither in the inevitable electric car disruption.
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No, parent is likely saying Elon could be indicted for fraud as well. He wasn't exactly exonerated by the SEC for 'funding secured', and there are a number of lawsuits outstanding, most notably the Solar City one. Just because you have an innovative and popular product doesn't mean you can't conduct fraud?
Sounds like you think this is a non ridiculous comparison? A market moving statement comparable to theranos vaporware
What type of fraud is still okay - where do you draw the line?
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> That's nothing compared to offering a completely fake product. I cannot wrap my head around this mindset. So the truck doesn't exist in any manner in which they claim, be it speed, hauling capacity, range or price. But what they claim also isn't "fake"? Let me spell it out, again: Tesla has raised money off of technology for which there's is no evidence they can or will ever achieve. FSD, solar shingles, the Semi's…
> So the truck doesn't exist in any manner in which they claim, be it speed, hauling capacity, range or price. But what they claim also isn't "fake"? Where did all those come from? You just said range and price before, and range is easy to fix. And if a product costs more than expected to build, it still exists . > shareholders/astroturfers Shove off. > solar shingles They installed a couple dozen roofs, didn't they?…
Who cares "what I said before". These are claims they've made that have no basis in reality. Claiming "we have a truck that can do all this" and can't is not that far away from claiming "we have a working truck" when you don't.
>They installed a couple dozen roofs, didn't they?
So you don't even know, you're guessing. They literally installed fake roofs that didn't function on a Hollywood neighbourhood set piece, then bought the company who claimed to be able to make these (a related party) within days. Is that much different than rolling a truck down a hill to raise money?
This information is free on the internet, people have been reporting on it for years. But the Tesla PR machine is strong. Try reading the law suit deposition, and then go try to order the shingles they advertised during the event. Then go visit the Buffalo factory where they were to produce these shingles (received hundreds of millions in subsidies for it). Then go look at what they are actually installing, years later, at jacked prices (generic shingles anyone can order from Chinese producers). And if you're still keen, you can read the reporting on the lawsuit happening right now about how all this came together to bail out Solar City.
Here is an opinion piece about some of it:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-07-30/nikola...
Not sure about you, but slapping an inferior product together, years later at a higher price, that isn't what you demonstrated when you took the money, is fraudulent:
https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/30/22410075/tesla-solar-roof...
"We can't actually deliver the product for the price we told you". Huh.
We can also talk about the "Paint it Black" FSD video, which was heavily edited to demonstrate full self driving capabilities which still don't exist today (and may never, but for which they have received billions in revenue) as a marketing piece. After that, maybe the battery swap (earned millions in subsidies from California), which also was not a feasible technology with a faked demonstration. Here's a little read on that one:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/21/the-tesla-battery-swa...
>Based on my existing knowledge I'd call it garbage but not fake.
I guess one could argue the Nikola truck was "garbage" because it had no drivetrain, but not "fake" because it existed? We did see it roll down the hill, after all.
Nikola was a fraud. Other companies are doing the same thing, because it works.
>Shove off.
Boy, you were pretty quiet when people were accusing me of trolling and being a shortseller above, eh. Why is that?
I'm going to let you in on something cool: I'm not a shortseller, I have no financial stake in Tesla other than what I own, long, in S&P500 ETFs. Meanwhile, there are Tesla shareholders and owners in this thread and others, who don't offer any disclaimer when they praise the company.
Interesting how your preconceived biases can lead you to conclusions that are in fact the opposite of reality. Fancy that.
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Sounds like you think this is a non ridiculous comparison? A market moving statement comparable to theranos vaporware
Did Enron just use aggressive accounting? Did Wirecard just overpay for its acquisitions and hide the losses in its balance sheet? What type of fraud is still okay - where do you draw the line?
If you haven't seen the Hindenburg report, I recommend reading it for the comedic value: https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/ Notable laughs: * Nikola rolled their semi truck down a hill to show that it worked * Trevor appointed his brother Travis "Director of Hydrogen Production/Infrastructure" when his only experience was pouring concrete driveways * The infamous "HTML5 supercomputer" comment: https://www.youtube…
Wow, thanks for sharing, I’d never seen this before: > "The entire infotainment system is a HTML 5 super computer," Milton said. "That's the standard language for computer programmers around the world, so using it let's us build our own chips. And HTML 5 is very secure. Every component is linked on the data network, all speaking the same language. It's not a bunch of separate systems that somehow still manage to comm…
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What do you think funds our union pension plans?
I don't have a union pension plan, and I'd argue they should be backed by less volatile investments than "innovative" companies.
A wise investor reduces volatility by diversification, rather than by concentrating on low-volatility assets.
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My goodness, the regulatory credits meme once again. How are those short shorts feeling by the way?
Ah, yes, the meme that is Tesla's own quarterly financial report.