1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee • Hacker News Board

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#441

Post by dannyw » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:54 AM UTC

anotheraccount9 wrote: post #409

I'm terribly sorry to bring this up this way but: if Amazon is a bad employer, why are so many people working for this business? Is it because it's better than jobs with comparable wages (are others similar?)

It pays better than other unskilled jobs, offers actual benefits like healthcare, and it's predictable but corporatized abuse.

It's not like a small retail shop where the manager gives you less shifts after you refuse a sexual advance, or a restauranta where you're working 3 more hours than your wage.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#442

Post by rejectedandsad » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #428

rejectedandsad wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to quickly emphasize that they are data driven enough to understand that lots of people buy those books because about 51-54% of the country doesn’t and never did like him.

I read a couple months ago that publishers were being pressured not to publish books by Trump insiders.

Yeah, and that probably didn't stem much of the flow because the rest were published by journalists. If anything some of the insiders' accounts were just as scathing as the explicitly anti-Trump books, which is saying something.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#443

Post by heavyset_go » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:08 AM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #378

heavyset_go wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One solution can be for a union, government, Amazon etc, is to put aside money for a fund that will invest in training these employees so they could one day not depend on these kind of low-leverage jobs. Unions have negotiated with companies that outsource or automate its members' jobs to secure compensation for the workers who were affected. However, I think this is a problem that requires a larger solution. There…

> We're heading towards a world where most work is done by machines, and only a handful of people will own, control and profit from them People keep saying that but we are no closer than we were 50 years ago. A lot of jobs have been replaced but new jobs have been created and society has absorbed the increased productivity (cheaper goods, foods, and much more complex high end goods (iPhone, airplanes, etc).

> A lot of jobs have been replaced but new jobs have been created and society has absorbed the increased productivity.

Not in every case. You can look at workers in the Rust Belt. Their well paying jobs with benefits were "replaced" and new jobs never came, unless you think working at Walmart for close to minimum wage is one of those new jobs.

Even when, say, manufacturers come back and produce domestically, they've reduced what used to be a 1,000+ person job to one that requires 40 engineers and a handful of maintenance people. It's not like any of those factory workers who were laid off in the past were later rehired as engineers, either.

It isn't "society" that's absorbed absorbed increased worker productivity, but employers and those who own the automation. Worker productivity in the US increased dramatically over the last 20 years, and even more over the last 40. Despite that, worker compensation hasn't increased, and has roughly remained the same over those same 40 years[1].

[1] https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#444

Post by shawnz » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:11 AM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #412

e12e wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not?

Because unions offer literally no upside for companies. They are meant precisely to organize the collective power of the employees to pressure the company into deals with its employees it wouldn’t have otherwise.

One upside for companies is that the unions are better able to represent the interests of the employees than, for example, the HR department would be able to, simply because of the incentives at play. This could attract more talent to the company, improve retention, and give the company more insight into the employees' needs.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#445

Post by AngryData » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:20 AM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #407

bradknowles wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the correct arrangement of holding companies, etc… in various countries around the world, corporations usually get away with paying virtually no taxes themselves. They might have to collect local sales taxes or some such, but going through Ireland, the Netherlands, and various other tax havens, the company itself pays effectively no taxes. And that’s assuming they choose to make a profit. Amazon intentionally ma…

> would otherwise have become “profit” and spend it in a way that counts as “re-investing”. Yes, so that’s not profit anymore. What’s the problem? Would you prefer that businesses be taxed on revenue and not profit?

It is a problem in where that money is going and being spent on. If they are truly investing, no problem, but if they are "investing" into, for example, buying there own private islands to vacation on under the guise of business, lambos for company cars, or boosting stock prices they already own, they aren't helping or supporting the economy they are extracting wealth from. And it should be taxed just like if I personally bought an island or 50 pounds of gold jewellery or a supercar.

Just because a company buys and owns something doesn't automatically make it an investment that shouldn't be taxed as profit.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#446

Post by jatins » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

drorco wrote: post #203

shakezula wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So aside from “just stop buying from Amazon” what can we do ? The "just stop buying amazon" arguments never made sense to me in the first place, because most people who use it are the ones budget-stretched in the first place. A lot of rural communities have no other viable options for some items as well. It will take massive government action and that's it. There's no other way we can fix this problem. Wages are su…

There's also the other option similar to what happened after the New York Elevator Operator Strike in 1945 -- the total elimination of a profession. https://www.inc.com/thomas-koulopoulos/100-years-ago-we-fear... "It wasn't until the middle of the twentieth century that the tipping point came along for the driverless elevator as the result of a strike by the elevator operators' union in New York City in 1945. The str…

Rest assured if Amazon could automate, Amazon would automate.

> I don't see any way for the employees to win this beyond buying a bit more time.

Why can't the government increase minimum wages? If those jobs are likely to get automated away then that's going to happen either way At least let them make decent wages _while_ they have a job.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#447

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

shakezula wrote: post #90

underseacables wrote: post #72

I’m torn badly with Amazon. After read The Everything Store, and what has been written all over the place, Jeff Bezos is a massive turd. Employees are horribly treated, wages suppressed, and all sorts of terrible and abusive practices. Then it comes time for me to buy something. I needed a new pair of size 14 sneakers. I drove to Adidas, Footlocker, dicks, and a few other stores but I just couldn’t justify $100 sneak…

> So aside from “just stop buying from Amazon” what can we do ? The "just stop buying amazon" arguments never made sense to me in the first place, because most people who use it are the ones budget-stretched in the first place. A lot of rural communities have no other viable options for some items as well. It will take massive government action and that's it. There's no other way we can fix this problem. Wages are su…

[deleted]

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#448

Post by foobiekr » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:53 AM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #319

foobiekr wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with the bet-the-house guy. I've worked for huge organizations since 1990 and I really think that even a mid-grade student project could make decisions as well as the management I've known, which includes multiple Fortune 50 CEOs. When I say "known" I mean "known" and not "been ten layers under." What I think will happen is CEOs will be glorified actors that are tasked with delivering the decisions some ML system…

ML systems don’t make decisions. I feel like a lot of comments about what ML will do start with a misunderstanding of what ML actually is. Saying ML will make a CEO’s decisions is like saying Excel will make CEO’s decisions. Neither is anything more than a system for keeping track of correlations.

Neither do most CEOs. What they do is best guess which fully evaluated option for (d)investment they like better based on gut feel. Most business-oriented decisions are basically stack ranking the options presented.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

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Post by StreamBright » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

kungito wrote: post #231

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"being a temp for future robots" While everyone was predicting that the dirty jobs would get automated, instead its a lot of midlevel jobs are getting automated, but we still don't have a robot that can take out the trash. I am willing to bet my house thay we can automate away the CEO but not the janitor, and it will be hilarious. Management is just analysis of data, we can do that. But the physical works requires de…

Management isn't analysis of data, it is making a decision based on that analysis. A completely different and more complex problem. One could argue that the border between the two is unclear but we have for sure been automatizing the analysis and we are nowhere near removing the managers. Maybe we could say we have removed layers of management though

Absolutely. This is why it would be better to chose the best option without the management.

I regularly consult management about technical decisions and the always chose something else than the best option. Based on feelings, opinions and kickback rates.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#450

Post by rebuilder » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #433

rebuilder wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employment rates aren't the issue IMO, wealth concentration is. And that's increasing. It's important because wealth is essentially power, so concentration of wealth inevitably changes the balance of power in society. And that in turn creates a feedback loop where the wealth and powerful can undermine thelaws and regulations intended to keep the distribution of wealth and power from becoming too lopsided. This is why…

Do you think the centralization of power in the federal government is a problem? Do you think famous people are a problem? Or is it only wealth that's a problem?

Power, as in the ability to alter others lives, is the “problem” IMO. Wealth is only a problem in that it’s intrinsically linked to power.

Really I think it’s a balancing act. Since we can’t just get rid of the concept of power, we try to regulate its use. This is pretty difficult.