1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee • Hacker News Board

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#261

Post by throwaway672000 » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:40 PM UTC

caturopath wrote: post #13

neolog wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"1 in Y" is simpler than "X in 100". 100 introduces an irrelevant big number.

I think OP's intuition is probably wrong and that "1 in Y" is more effective than "X%". That being said, it is tricky to move the adjustment between the numerator and denominator, and there are cases where this choice can be key -- "25 miles per gallon" is indeed a far worse metric to use than "4 gallons per 100 miles".

I don't think I would see anything wrong with gallons per 100 miles if I was used to it. Especially if it was "gallons per megamile" or whatever.

You see (at least in the UK) dishwashers say they only use x litres of water per wash or even things like "this only costs 10p an hour running costs".

It feels like one less step to get to "how much would this car cost me for my 250 miles a week" - which seems more common than "I can afford exactly 2 gallons of petrol a week, how far can I get with this car".

Maybe I'd feel differently if we bought fuel in the same units we measured its consumption in!

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#262

Post by ingas » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:40 PM UTC

phreeza wrote: post #14

runnerup wrote: post #3

I wonder what the largest private employers as % of total labor force have been throughout history. We currently have a labor force of ~160 million people and Walmart employs "1 out of every 72 American workers" or ~1.3%

Wasn't basically everyone an employee of one "company" in communist countries?

It seems NO.

In Soviet Union considerable part was in cooperation. And more in Stalin era then later.

Citing Russian wikipedia:

> By the end of the 1950s, there were more than 114 thousand workshops and other industrial enterprises in its system, where 1.8 million people worked. They produced 5.9 % of the gross industrial output, for example, up to 40 % of all furniture, up to 70 % of all metal utensils, more than a third of upper knitwear, almost all children's toys. The system of commercial cooperation included 100 design bureaus, 22 experimental laboratories and two research institutes.

China is capitalism all the way now.

IDK about North Korea but they don't seems like a "communist country" for me.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#263

Post by lupire » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

underseacables wrote: post #88

missedthecue wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you accuse them of suppressing wages when they lead the way to $15/hr, and when they literally spend money lobbying congress to raise the federal minimum wage? https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-15-minimum-wage-lobby...

That’s a fair point. I see them as suppressing wages because they open warehouses in small towns, pay $15/hr and then work the person to death so they become dependent on that job. Amazon can totally dominate an area’s workforce and use that to drive wages and benefits down.

They don't drive down hourly wages, they drive down wages per effort and health cost.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#264

Post by lupire » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #257

underseacables wrote: post #72

I’m torn badly with Amazon. After read The Everything Store, and what has been written all over the place, Jeff Bezos is a massive turd. Employees are horribly treated, wages suppressed, and all sorts of terrible and abusive practices. Then it comes time for me to buy something. I needed a new pair of size 14 sneakers. I drove to Adidas, Footlocker, dicks, and a few other stores but I just couldn’t justify $100 sneak…

> So aside from “just stop buying from Amazon” what can we do ? As far as I can see, there are only two forces potentially big enough to fight a big corporation today: 1. Another equally big corporation. 2. The federal government. The fact that US anti-trust enforcement has been essentially non-existent means that #1 is almost gone these days. Citizens United allowed corporations to buy politicians, so it seems that…

3. Don't buy junk you don't need. Pay people to create real value.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#265

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

hogFeast wrote: post #237

lotsofpulp wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Margins are the difference between what it cost, and what you earned. But what I would call "profitability" is your actual return versus capital deployed. >For example, I know a retailer that earns a 1% margin...terrible? No. They turn over their inventory every week (roughly), so they earn that 1% 56x times a year...that is a very profitable business. Similarly, I can earn a 90% margin but if I can only turn my ass…

Okay, to make this clear: the company that I am talking about earned a 67% return on investment...does this sound high or low level of profitability? Margin tells you nothing, businesses are not valued on margin but by return on capital (of which margin is a component but not the only component). Also, your points about margin are all wrong...supermarkets control both the price they charge and the price they pay. To…

> If you earn 0.01% that isn't a lot, if you earn 100 000x per day then that is very profitable.

My point about profit margins is that they are low profit margins per employee (which I should have made explicit). Retail companies do not have room to hire better managers and workers.

The low margins show that customers are only willing pay so much and that it is a basically all optimizations have been wrung out. At least until a game changer comes along like the internet, which provides even further optimizations, but those are about lowering costs, generally including payroll.

> And I explained why retail does. If retailers aren't necessary, why is Amazon so large? Are Chinese factories just choosing to set fire to money? You explaining it does not make it true.

I never wrote retailers are not necessary. I explained why most retailers cannot be differentiated from one another. And the answer is because for most things, the customer does not care for much other than low prices.

Trader Joe’s is a good example of there being a little bit of opportunity serving the richer households. Trader Joe’s are always only in the richer parts of town, like Costco. But Trader Joe’s is certainly not cheaper than a mainstream grocery store like Kroger or Winco or Aldi, and won’t be able to compete with them in neighborhoods with poorer demographics.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#266

Post by ingas » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

throwaway672000 wrote: post #261

caturopath wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OP's intuition is probably wrong and that "1 in Y" is more effective than "X%". That being said, it is tricky to move the adjustment between the numerator and denominator, and there are cases where this choice can be key -- "25 miles per gallon" is indeed a far worse metric to use than "4 gallons per 100 miles".

I don't think I would see anything wrong with gallons per 100 miles if I was used to it. Especially if it was "gallons per megamile" or whatever. You see (at least in the UK) dishwashers say they only use x litres of water per wash or even things like "this only costs 10p an hour running costs". It feels like one less step to get to "how much would this car cost me for my 250 miles a week" - which seems more common t…

I don't see anything wrong in measuring gallons per mile and measuring in yards and other non-metric systems when it's something local. Maybe it's convinient if you live somewhere where everybody accustomed to that.

It's when I see articles about space exploration with miles and pounds - it feels wrong.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#267

Post by Gene_Parmesan » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

shakezula wrote: post #90

underseacables wrote: post #72

I’m torn badly with Amazon. After read The Everything Store, and what has been written all over the place, Jeff Bezos is a massive turd. Employees are horribly treated, wages suppressed, and all sorts of terrible and abusive practices. Then it comes time for me to buy something. I needed a new pair of size 14 sneakers. I drove to Adidas, Footlocker, dicks, and a few other stores but I just couldn’t justify $100 sneak…

> So aside from “just stop buying from Amazon” what can we do ? The "just stop buying amazon" arguments never made sense to me in the first place, because most people who use it are the ones budget-stretched in the first place. A lot of rural communities have no other viable options for some items as well. It will take massive government action and that's it. There's no other way we can fix this problem. Wages are su…

> A lot of rural communities have no other viable options for some items as well.

I sometimes fantasize about what it would be like to live in a mild-to-moderately isolated community - moving to Hawaii, northern Alaska, some random island. It's fascinating reading blogs by people who live there, and many of them have a "So You Want to Move to _____" type of post. In virtually all of them, there is some comment along the lines of "It's really hard to find all the things you're used to buying out here, but at least Amazon delivers to us." One of those that I was reading about Hawaii said the big island only has a few big box stores but Amazon can deliver in two to three days.

Just thought that was an interesting tidbit.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#268

Post by jacobr1 » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #257

underseacables wrote: post #72

I’m torn badly with Amazon. After read The Everything Store, and what has been written all over the place, Jeff Bezos is a massive turd. Employees are horribly treated, wages suppressed, and all sorts of terrible and abusive practices. Then it comes time for me to buy something. I needed a new pair of size 14 sneakers. I drove to Adidas, Footlocker, dicks, and a few other stores but I just couldn’t justify $100 sneak…

> So aside from “just stop buying from Amazon” what can we do ? As far as I can see, there are only two forces potentially big enough to fight a big corporation today: 1. Another equally big corporation. 2. The federal government. The fact that US anti-trust enforcement has been essentially non-existent means that #1 is almost gone these days. Citizens United allowed corporations to buy politicians, so it seems that…

Walmart is starting to become more competitive again re #1

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#269

Post by forz877 » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #247

underseacables wrote: post #72

I’m torn badly with Amazon. After read The Everything Store, and what has been written all over the place, Jeff Bezos is a massive turd. Employees are horribly treated, wages suppressed, and all sorts of terrible and abusive practices. Then it comes time for me to buy something. I needed a new pair of size 14 sneakers. I drove to Adidas, Footlocker, dicks, and a few other stores but I just couldn’t justify $100 sneak…

> Employees are horribly treated, wages suppressed I never saw the definitive source on this, but around the time when the unionization vote was happening, people claiming experience in the logistics industry described Amazon as a place with low starting wages, but aggressive bonus structure for high performers. They also offered health benefits on day 1, which is unheard of in logistics. Other warehouses in the area…

Rewarding a select group of high performers is a great way to underpay overall. You sell the idea of a bonus, but bonuses get easily taken away, and only go to a few select individuals.

I don't think Amazon "underpays" per say - but the working conditions described seem quite poor.

Re: 1 out of every 153 American workers is an Amazon employee

#270

Post by nunez » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

orangegreen wrote: post #233

underseacables wrote: post #72

I’m torn badly with Amazon. After read The Everything Store, and what has been written all over the place, Jeff Bezos is a massive turd. Employees are horribly treated, wages suppressed, and all sorts of terrible and abusive practices. Then it comes time for me to buy something. I needed a new pair of size 14 sneakers. I drove to Adidas, Footlocker, dicks, and a few other stores but I just couldn’t justify $100 sneak…

You can use eBay if you don't want to use Amazon. Plus, you can even sell your stuff on eBay when you're done using it. I've never been an Amazon customer and don't plan on ever being one. I buy most things used too, saving lots of money along the way.

LOL.

eBay is even worse!

Zeroth, lots of eBay resellers drop-ship from or resell directly from Amazon. There are plenty of bots looking for arbitrage opportunities between Amazon, brick-and-mortar, and OEM.

First, there's absolutely zero guarantee that you'll get what you bought. The chances of you getting a box of rocks is significantly greater on eBay than on Amazon (unless you use Amazon Marketplace, in which the chances of this happening are _still_ lower).

Second, returns and disputes are generally settled C2C (consumer-to-consumer). Which means you're completely at the mercy of the seller (or the buyer, if you're selling). PayPal acts as a mediator, but they are really easy to game.

Ever heard of the US Postal Investigations Service? Or the FBI IC3? Well, you'll get to know those departments _real_ well once you start using eBay enough.

Third, PayPal has a Buyer Protection guarantee, but it only applies in a handful of specific situations and is, again, very easy to game. Hard contrast to Amazon's return policy, which is, basically, "if you still have it, and it's in the return window, you can return it, unless you abuse it."