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New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

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Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#131

Post by ManBlanket »

archsurface wrote: post #129

Why do these things take so long to find? Do they not show up in all collisions - why not, wrong matter, wrong speed? Do they regularly appear, but the "camera" has limitations? Is the "camera" all-seeing, but measurement interpretation inefficient? All/some of the above?

I think it's a matter of theory supporting observed data. They point the, "camera" at a bunch of experiments, which generates a ton of data, then it's up to theoretical physicists to explain the results. Once the results of a theory have been explained and then reproduced it stands on solid ground. I'm just speculating, of course. But that is sort of how astronomy works, at the polar opposite end of a similar field.

Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#132

Post by bkanber »

ansible wrote: post #121
whymad wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True for what it is, but this is handled in the books. They literally don’t want our planet, they want our star . And the dark forest: without a history of correlated interaction we have no reason to believe they will allow us to live, so we can’t allow them to live, so they can’t allow us to live. Eliding a more major spoiler, they absolutely intended to annihilate us on arrival and they would have gotten away with…

> True for what it is, but this is handled in the books. They literally don’t want our planet, they want our star. That's... an odd reason. There are plenty of stars out there, unless the aliens started out right next door (like in Alpha Centauri) there's not much reason to go after our star. I haven't read the books...

> unless the aliens started out right next door (like in Alpha Centauri)

:D

Strongly recommended reading.

Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#133

Post by bkanber »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #111
f6v wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a great book, but it suffers from the same old issue. A civilization that is capable of packing a robot into particle by manipulating higher dimensions doesn’t need to take our planet. They could terraform Mars or any other planet they want.

There's also the weird aspect that [rot13'd for spoilers] gur fbcubagf frrz gb or noyr gb vasyhrapr naq dhrel znggre, ohg pna'g frrz gb ernq crbcyr'f zvaqf be xvyy gurz.

Gurl jrer cebgbaf, evtug? Fb gurl ernyyl pna bayl nssrpg guvatf nebhaq gung znff naq raretl enatr. Gurl pna zrff jvgu cnegvpyr nppryrengbe rkcrevzragf ohg pna'g nssrpg gur znpeb jbeyq.

Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#134

Post by EthanHeilman »

alasdair_ wrote: post #68
f6v wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a great book, but it suffers from the same old issue. A civilization that is capable of packing a robot into particle by manipulating higher dimensions doesn’t need to take our planet. They could terraform Mars or any other planet they want.

I had the same problem with the books. If the sophon is that omniscient and that powerful, it could do far more than just mess with experiments. I also never understood the wallfacers - why can’t they communicate via encryption, using a private key stored in each individuals mind alone?

The sophons are not that powerful and have very limited capabilities. Humans perceived as being very powerful because we doesn't understand how they work and they are being used to frighten us. It's like showing a gun to someone who doesn't know what a gun is. The limitations such line of sight, range, limited ammo are not immediately obvious. It looks as though you have a god-like ability to strike anyone dead by wishing it.

Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#135

Post by Vecr »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #109
cogman10 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still doesn't make sense. Why limit our tech when they ultimately want to just eliminate us all together? Drop a super virus on us or irradiate the whole planet. Any species capable of disrupting our particle accelerators is more than capable of wiping us from existence.

They could send the subatomic particles from Trisolaris to Earth at light speed, and then use the entangled pair of particles (one on earth, its mate on Trisolaris) to monitor events on earth in real-time. As already said, that preserves the planet, prevents a potential enemy from further developing technologically, and enables real-time monitoring of and interference with that enemy's activities.

I can't reply to roywiggins for some reason, but it's possible that the solar systems are closer in other dimensions or something like that. Probably not though, because the higher dimensions are so small. I assume the author didn't think about it until it was too late, or they couldn't fix it.

Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#136

Post by Panoramix »

f6v wrote: post #54
pseudobry wrote: post #42

I recently finished The Three-Body Problem and The Dark Forest, which explore the concept of aliens using their super advanced technology to mess with the results of Earth's particle accelerators, thereby stopping humanity's ability to develop technology based on new physics. Is this discovery exciting? Or are we living in The Three-Body Problem?

It’s a great book, but it suffers from the same old issue. A civilization that is capable of packing a robot into particle by manipulating higher dimensions doesn’t need to take our planet. They could terraform Mars or any other planet they want.

Spoilers ahead

It was such a letdown, the book starts great, and then the explanation turns out to be magical Alien proton computers? Yikes. It was so promising.

I eventually read the whole trilogy, I have very mixed feelings about it. It had some pretty cool ideas but it's hard to get past all the giant plot holes and outlandish fantasy. I guess you have to be in the mood to constantly brush off the bad parts (and boy there are many) and plunge forward.

Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#137

Post by WORMS_EAT_WORMS »

f6v wrote: post #54
pseudobry wrote: post #42

I recently finished The Three-Body Problem and The Dark Forest, which explore the concept of aliens using their super advanced technology to mess with the results of Earth's particle accelerators, thereby stopping humanity's ability to develop technology based on new physics. Is this discovery exciting? Or are we living in The Three-Body Problem?

It’s a great book, but it suffers from the same old issue. A civilization that is capable of packing a robot into particle by manipulating higher dimensions doesn’t need to take our planet. They could terraform Mars or any other planet they want.

The whole book is fun and creative fiction. Just enjoy it like you would enjoy any non-real TV or movie.

If you haven’t read the series, saw the spoilers here, and are no longer thinking about it… don’t get discouraged. Pay off in Book 3 via the space concepts are worth it still. Mind blowing fun stuff

Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#138

Post by zinglersen »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #113
adrianN wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like black holes because once you have one you don't need an accelerator for refueling. https://arxiv.org/abs/0908.1803

Huh, "black holes move when you push them" is interesting. I suppose you could feed it with a beam, but focusing a beam down to attometer-size beamwidth seems like the hardest part, ignoring making a subatomic black hole in the first place. But sure, I suppose capturing the radiation and redirecting most of it back into the black hole to push it and maintain its size, and just enough spare to push the ship itself at…

This was such a cool read, thank you!

What is hardest for me to comprehend is probably the last part about time being relative. All this stuff makes me think about how everything is made of the same matter and then, what am "I"?

Btw this part from the wiki link cracked me up "Constant acceleration is notable for several reasons: It is a fast form of travel."

Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#139

Post by visualradio »

Panoramix wrote: post #136
f6v wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a great book, but it suffers from the same old issue. A civilization that is capable of packing a robot into particle by manipulating higher dimensions doesn’t need to take our planet. They could terraform Mars or any other planet they want.

Spoilers ahead It was such a letdown, the book starts great, and then the explanation turns out to be magical Alien proton computers? Yikes. It was so promising. I eventually read the whole trilogy, I have very mixed feelings about it. It had some pretty cool ideas but it's hard to get past all the giant plot holes and outlandish fantasy. I guess you have to be in the mood to constantly brush off the bad parts (and b…

A more materialist approach would be to say that it is the artists and authors of such books which are influenced by cosmos and the three body problem is an error detection code for repairing memory errors in collective consciousness to prevent civilizations from repeating unpromising patterns of development which have already been simulated.

Re: New exotic matter particle, a tetraquark, discovered at CERN

#140

Post by shhsshs »

gizmo686 wrote: post #103
wdwvt1 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree with this, the effort to retard development could have been better spent with a myriad of ecosystem destroying actions or geopolitical manipulations. Also just send the indestructible probe to kill every human... My bigger problem with this book was that the author seems to wholely confuse secrecy for strategy. The entire conceit behind the wallfacers seemed ridiculous to me. The best strategic plan nee…

More spoilers below: They actualy did a fair amount of geopolitical manipulations. That formed most of the plot. In the end, it turned out to be MAD that saved us, but setting up the MAD scenario involved secrecy from them (or else they would have stopped us before we could trigger it), and from the rest of humanity (because an official plan to destroy Earth would never have been approved).

> In the end, it turned out to be MAD that saved us

Read the rest of the series and this answer gets more interesting. I will not say any more about the outcome (spoilers)

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