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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#691

Post by mensetmanusman »

derkster wrote: post #639
mensetmanusman wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obesity has and will kill more than COVID as well. Also, health care spending due to obesity is also extreme.

I'm not sure why a lot of disagreements surrounding this issue devolve in to pointing the finger at some issue that has nothing to do with COVID. I assume it's an attempt to diminish the severity of COVID, by comparing a transmittable disease to one that's not? To but it simply, I don't risk dying from obesity simply by being in proximity with someone morbidly obese. I risk contracting COVID, and potentially dying by…

There have been studies that show group social dynamics can spread (like behavioral viruses), e.g. the behavior traits that lead to obesity do in fact spread due to the conforming nature of humans.

Timescales are, of course, orders of magnitude different, and maybe that is the only difference that “matters”. E.g. we would still rearrange chairs on a slowly sinking titanic because that’s what humans do.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#692

Post by [deleted] »

Marcus9 wrote: post #556
Closi wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People need to accept the reality that spreading a disease is causing harm, and that preventing people from causing harm is a core function of the rules of society. Mandating vaccines is going a step further - it's forcing people to do an action, which might reduce their chances of causing harm in the future . If the sole goal was to prevent people to cause harm to others, we should prevent people from driving (the…

That's a fair assessment, my initial comment only focused on one half of the balance you're highlighting. The problem is, you know what I don't want to have put in my body even more than the vaccine? The coronavirus. The fact that it's some anti-vax luddite coughing on my kid and putting the virus in their body that way instead of a nurse administering a shot is just a minor implementation detail. We've banned leaded…

[deleted]

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#693

Post by mattzito »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #636
mattzito wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regards to the VAERS data, it’s simply a matter of numbers. 140m people vaccinated, almost all of them older than 18, and all of them in a short time period. A disproportionate percentage of whom are elderly, by the way. Some of them are going to die after getting a shot for no particular reason. As far as the miscarriage bit - somewhere between 15-25% of pregnancies end in a miscarriage. 4.4m pregnancies a year…

Yes I agree that math seems to work. I also agree that it is safe to assume that the COVID vaccine is somewhat unique in that it is being administered to women of childbearing age more than almost all other vaccines, which typically get administered to children. So for a more like-to-like comparison, let’s look at flu vaccine numbers, which gets administered to about 40% of American adults every year (including women…

Or, when a woman gets a flu shot and then has a miscarriage, she doesn’t assume it was because of the flu shot, because she’s had a flu shot many times before. It seems like you’re being deliberately obtuse here.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#694

Post by bananabiscuit »

mattzito wrote: post #693
bananabiscuit wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I agree that math seems to work. I also agree that it is safe to assume that the COVID vaccine is somewhat unique in that it is being administered to women of childbearing age more than almost all other vaccines, which typically get administered to children. So for a more like-to-like comparison, let’s look at flu vaccine numbers, which gets administered to about 40% of American adults every year (including women…

Or, when a woman gets a flu shot and then has a miscarriage, she doesn’t assume it was because of the flu shot, because she’s had a flu shot many times before. It seems like you’re being deliberately obtuse here.

I think I’m being very transparent and open minded. I’ll admit your hypothesis about the mundaneness of flu shots is very possible. My only point is that that hypothesis or some other hypothesis needs to be confirmed by experts. Instead the only people we have commenting on this are right wing pundits that have their own axe to grind.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#695

Post by fsociety »

I’m going to call out some BS in this thread. If you work at Google or Facebook you can get a job elsewhere which likely pays similar if not more than your current position. I know lots who have done it and are happier.

We are talking as if Google and Facebook doing something will cause everyone else to do something. Some companies will, others won’t. Reality is, a lot of us are sick of COVID and quarantine and masks and not seeing friends and family and just want it to stop dominating our lives.

I was sick with COVID in April and it was a bad few days. I was then re-infected approximately 10 months later and it was even worse. I have severe medical anxiety and the best decision I made for myself was to get the vaccine.

You can make your own personal choice but other people don’t need to cater to you. Many of us have been personally affected by COVID and our freedom means we don’t need to put up with BS anymore.

I won’t support government mandated vaccines, but I will support individual companies making this decision.

If you, a tech worker at FAANG, truly can’t find another job in this hot market.. then we can start talking about welfare in this country and how most don’t make 500K at FAANG and get totally fucked over by the lack of support from their government. Never mind the complete wreck of an economy the last year was.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#696

Post by Bryan22 »

himinlomax wrote: post #603
makomk wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, anyone who's genuinely at risk enough that they can't risk being exposed despite being vaccinated - as opposed to the people who were convinced they are because of stupid media culture war bullshit - probably shouldn't be working in an office, because at that point they're going to be at reasonably comparable risk from the common cold. Seriously. The other four endemic human coronaviruses, for example, are…

So people who have health concerns should be penalized to accommodate people who are scared of needles?

So people who don't want to take the vaccine until it has been fully approved by the FDA should be penalized to accommodate people who neglect their health?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#697

Post by Bryan22 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #594
oldcigarette wrote: post #90

I work at google and am vaxxed but this pisses me off. I decided that the vaccine was worth the risk and for the best overall but if someone makes a different calculus I can understand and respect that. IMHO they gone way outside the reasonable scope of an employer - this is a cultural decision at the society level - why the fuck does my employer give a shit about this. Unless the employees are only commuting back an…

I'm also at Google. Every single one of my reports who are intending to return to office have expressed concern and stress over unvaccinated peers in the office. Every single one.

If this is truly the case, a mandate wouldn't be necessary. Every single one of these people would have been vaccinated already. So why the mandate?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#698

Post by Bryan22 »

paxys wrote: post #77
nixpulvis wrote: post #35

It's honestly fascinating to me that this is going to be the way we meet Privacy vs Security face to face more broadly. Intrapersonally, they might go hand in hand, but in the group setting, they seem almost at direct odds. Security (or safety) requires some social contracts to be fulfilled. When these social contracts aren't enough we start to see polices and law take up the slack. Our existing privacy laws and regu…

Is this really pushing the envelope though? Routine drug testing by employers, for example, has been considered totally acceptable by society for decades now. I'd consider a one-time proof of vaccination against a deadly pandemic to be far less intrusive than that.

It's not the 'proof' part of "proof of vaccination" that's the problem. It's compelling an employee to put a foreign substance into their body. This is also much different than requiring an employee NOT ingest a substance. The situation you've created here is akin to restricted speech vs compelled speech (drug test the former, vaccine the latter).

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#699

Post by sjg007 »

I am surprised at the push for return to work. We've known about Delta since December. It took out India and the UK followed. We have at least another year of the pandemic left and more likely probably 2 more years before things settle down. Google and FB really need to figure out how to be remote first.

The Spanish flu took 2+ years. Learning to live with covid is a 5 year thing I think just because of how interconnected we are. Hopefully vaccines will dent it.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#700

Post by sjg007 »

cbozeman wrote: post #585
nindalf wrote: post #184

I’ve typed out 3 comments to 3 separate people before deleting them. I didn’t see the point. Folks, it’s a good idea to heed dang’s warning at the top of the thread. I’ve read all the comments and can confidently say there’s nothing worth reading here. Just people absolutely convinced of their ideas and principles, shouting past each other. Nothing we haven’t seen on this topic 50 times before. You’re better off goin…

People should absolutely get vaccinated. After Eric Topol's appearance on Sam Harris' Making Sense podcast, the argument has been made and it's airtight... for you , yourself going and getting vaccinated of your own volition. What should not happen - what cannot happen - is the government or private entities forcing you to be vaccinated, or you lose your means of supporting yourself. It's as un-American as it gets. P…

The gov't can indeed force you to get vaccinated. That is settled case law and history.

You can choose to work somewhere else if your company forces vaccinations. Plenty of jobs and no right to work.

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