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Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#461
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last few big tech employers have had a policy forbidding me from trading in options or derivatives on the stock, as a lowly software engineer.

Care to share? From my knowledge, Google and Microsoft have no such restrictions.

You are forbidden to trade derivatives of GOOG as an employee of Alphabet. Source is that I am one and I have read my insider trading policy.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#462
post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The Battery-Solar-Car angle is such an obvious integration for Tesla. I guess on paper it is frustrating it was a family connection, but their alternative was for Tesla to start building their own Solar capability when they had a significant stake in one already. SEC is a joke - chasing Elon is like a weird hobby for them... meanwhile things like 2008 happen and they shrug and…

Sure, battery solar goes together, but why did they need to specifically buy his conflict of interest failing one instead of another solar company? Because he had leveraged investments in it and even mixed SpaceX into it having them use NASA money to buy SolarCity bonds. Crazy self-dealing and ultimately fraud with the fake shingle demo and claims.

Pretty sure Solar is a big part of energy generation in Space related stuff.

So I can obviously see the self dealing side… but there is also an equally “it just made sense” side. Do billionaires need to self enrich with crazy side deals?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the claim can't be backed by evidence. There's still a camera alone vs camera +lidar debate. But besides that it's not hard to imagine that the neural net needed to process whatever vision you need isn't powerful enough, so you need next generation GPUs/TPUs/whatever-Us. We just don't know until it's been done. But we know that the more frames you can process per second the better. We do know that the more re…

AI algorithms are split into training and inference. Training is the process of generating the parameters for the neural network, it usually takes significant resources to train and is a very hard process. Inference is the process of using a pre-trained neural network to perform predictions. Tesla's car have hardware to perform inference. From working on the field for several years, I do believe that they have hardwa…

> I do believe that they have hardware capable of performing inference (driving a car).

Since it has never been done we still don't know what's needed, so even if you worked in the field that's only intuition, a bit light for big commercial claims IMHO.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#464
post #461
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share? From my knowledge, Google and Microsoft have no such restrictions.

You are forbidden to trade derivatives of GOOG as an employee of Alphabet. Source is that I am one and I have read my insider trading policy.

Granted the internal policy might be more detailed but I've read https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/

It talks about not allowing "hedging Google stock".

To me it means "you can't short Google stock", which is reasonable. It would be really fishy for an employee to bet on failure of the company he works for.

It doesn't mean "you can't buy call options on Google stock", which would be unreasonable.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#465
post #324
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tesla truck is vaporware https://youtu.be/56862W24HK8

The reservation page is up, they are talking delivery in 2022.

It still doesn't say how much it will be able to carry. They'll sell some for the marketing value, but no company will replace their diesel fleet with it

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#466
post #269

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When you look at the actual fraud (like Theranos) silicon valley funds are nowhere near it. The people that get duped are usually outsiders that are more easily manipulated. It can be hard to tell the difference between big ideas and bullshit, they can often sound similar. Con-artists will mimic the people that actually know their shit. In order to tell the difference you need to actually look at the underlying tech…

> Con-artists will mimic the people that actually know their shit. Ah yes. A certain billionaire promises robo-taxis and full Level 5 autonomy by 2020, and then in 2021, admits self-driving is hard as FSD is still Level 2, after duping their own customers on buying ahead of their 'promises'. This billionaire in 2019, surely knew what he was talking about. /s > In order to tell the difference you need to actually look…

Does it matter if the product is superior and does not cause backlash even with the overstated feature?

I mean seriously, if the Tesla owners club was crying and planning class action on this, we would have a different conversation but I don't really see that happening as FSD is just vapor ware at the moment.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#467
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like they took delivery in 2019? And in 2022 it will be 2024. And you will continue to think that doesn't matter. If deadlines don't matter why can't Nikola claim the same thing? "It doesn't work yet, but it will?"

Because Tesla did not demonstrate fake trucks to get funding or take orders. The prototypes are not making materially false implications. Tesla does have the technology to make electric trucks, however bad they may be compared to Nikola which had a rolling shell. Tesla and Musk do many bad things, but I'm sure if their truck was just a shell - they'd be in deep trouble too.

>(Because Tesla did not demonstrate fake trucks to get funding or take orders

They demonstrated fake Solar shingles though. Then bailed out a related party and did a fundraise on it.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the lawsuit is merely about rolling the truck down the hill, as opposed to lying to investors about their current tech, I'm not sure what to tell you. There is zero evidence Tesla has a semitruck that with the range the claim at the price they claim to be able to produce it.

They can get range with enough batteries. So at most the price is wrong. That's nothing compared to offering a completely fake product.

>That's nothing compared to offering a completely fake product.

I cannot wrap my head around this mindset.

So the truck doesn't exist in any manner in which they claim, be it speed, hauling capacity, range or price. But what they claim also isn't "fake"?

Let me spell it out, again: Tesla has raised money off of technology for which there's is no evidence they can or will ever achieve. FSD, solar shingles, the Semi's specs/price, the Cybertruck's spec/price (it's likely the Cybertruck as demonstrated isn't even street legal).

The fact that they have an unproven prototype roaming the streets is a long way from what they are selling. Why does the fact that they have one-off prototypes absolve them of this?

I've asked these questions multiple times, but the Tesla shareholders/astroturfers refuse to answer them:

1) had Nikola put their Semi cab on top of a golf cart frame to film the video (or better yet, a Model X frame ie no real underlying tech to match their claims), would that have been fine, because it "drove"? Sounds like it.

2) what about the Solar shingle demo? Employees involved in it claimed, under oath, that it did not function. It still doesn't exist today. The Buffalo factory is practically idle and shingles are generically sourced from China. Is that something you would consider "fake"?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggeration and hyperbole) Musk was not a Stanford PhD nor a founder, if that's who you are referring to. If you can point me to any evidence of either that doesn't come from him, I'll be happy to stand corrected. > He even hired his brother--a guy who used to install carpets--to run Nikola's hydr…

Legally he is a founder. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/tesla-ceo-settles-for-... Kimball doesn't run part of the infrastructure. You sound like someone who writes SeekingAlpha FUD articles.

>You sound like someone who writes SeekingAlpha FUD articles.

I suppose the HN rules go out the window when we are defending Musk.

>Kimball doesn't run part of the infrastructure.

He's on the board. What are his qualifications.

>Legally he is a founder

Yes, a billionaire paid money so that people like you could claim he's a "founder". Is that what founder means to you? Laughable.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#470
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggeration and hyperbole) Musk was not a Stanford PhD nor a founder, if that's who you are referring to. If you can point me to any evidence of either that doesn't come from him, I'll be happy to stand corrected. > He even hired his brother--a guy who used to install carpets--to run Nikola's hydr…

According to Wikipedia, Musk was accepted to a Stanford PhD. As acceptance is the hardest, most competitive and therefore most distinguished part of any elite university, that in itself is a meaningful signal. Parent poster also never said he has a PhD, but that he has the pedigree , i.e. got through the hardest part.

>According to Wikipedia, Musk was accepted to a Stanford PhD

Oh I've heard. Great story. Is it true? There's a lot of finely crafted mythology around the man.

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