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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#681

Post by tpxl »

Pyramus wrote: post #358
tpxl wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Evolutionary pressure selects for less deadly viruses over time. > I'm hearing that for the first time, do you have a source? A virus that kills its host before it has a chance to infect others cannot reproduce. I cannot remember which virus it was (might have been ebola) but it wiped whole communities so fast it died off because there were no new hosts to infect.

Not sure if that's what parent meant - these are extreme cases. In general (e.g. in the case of SARS-Cov2) evolutionary pressure will increase transmissibility but is indifferent to lethality (again up to the extreme point where lethality precludes transmission).

Won't any amount of lethality preclude some transmission?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#682

Post by dsnr »

himinlomax wrote: post #603
makomk wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, anyone who's genuinely at risk enough that they can't risk being exposed despite being vaccinated - as opposed to the people who were convinced they are because of stupid media culture war bullshit - probably shouldn't be working in an office, because at that point they're going to be at reasonably comparable risk from the common cold. Seriously. The other four endemic human coronaviruses, for example, are…

So people who have health concerns should be penalized to accommodate people who are scared of needles?

Just FYI, infected vaccinated people have same levels of virus as unvaccinated people, and transmit the virus at the same rate. Best way to “stay away from unvaccinated people” is to just get yourself vaccinated and call it a day. If someone is immunocompromised they are not safe near vaccinated people either.

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-fully-vaccinated-people-...

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#683

Post by himinlomax »

dsnr wrote: post #682
himinlomax wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people who have health concerns should be penalized to accommodate people who are scared of needles?

Just FYI, infected vaccinated people have same levels of virus as unvaccinated people, and transmit the virus at the same rate. Best way to “stay away from unvaccinated people” is to just get yourself vaccinated and call it a day. If someone is immunocompromised they are not safe near vaccinated people either. https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-fully-vaccinated-people-...

Assuming this is correct, that would be vaccinated people who get infected, and they are 10 times less likely to get infected in the first place. Antivax arguments are so terrible.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#684

Post by dsnr »

himinlomax wrote: post #683
dsnr wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI, infected vaccinated people have same levels of virus as unvaccinated people, and transmit the virus at the same rate. Best way to “stay away from unvaccinated people” is to just get yourself vaccinated and call it a day. If someone is immunocompromised they are not safe near vaccinated people either. https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-fully-vaccinated-people-...

Assuming this is correct, that would be vaccinated people who get infected , and they are 10 times less likely to get infected in the first place. Antivax arguments are so terrible.

Nothing that I said is “antivax”. You should try to direct your frustrations somewhere else when you’re looking to rationalize your own decisions.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#685

Post by Pyramus »

tpxl wrote: post #681
Pyramus wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if that's what parent meant - these are extreme cases. In general (e.g. in the case of SARS-Cov2) evolutionary pressure will increase transmissibility but is indifferent to lethality (again up to the extreme point where lethality precludes transmission).

Won't any amount of lethality preclude some transmission?

In general no, as was remarked in a sibling comment in this thread: SARS-Cov-2 on average spreads within the first 1-4 days after infection (viral titers peak on day 2 I believe), so the virus is indifferent to what happens after.

I also want to remark that there is the opposite effect that transmissibility correlates strongly with viral load (amount of viral particles) and viral load correlates weakly with lethality.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#686

Post by simondotau »

forcry wrote: post #680
simondotau wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with trust any more. I no longer have to trust a single thing said by any individual scientist, any individual medical doctor, any institution of science or any institution of medicine. Why? Because sufficient evidence is now available in hard numerical statistics.

> Because sufficient evidence is now available in hard numerical statistics. Can you show me the exact number of adverse events observed after, say pfizer covid vaccine, in real world use? Can you show me the exact number of breakthrough infections observed after, say pfizer covid vaccine, in real world use? Even if these numbers are available, then it is anyone take if they want to trust the entity that collected th…

Adverse events? Don't make me laugh. Sorry, but even the most doomsday anti-vax postulations about vaccine "adverse events" don't even come close to competing with the proven "adverse events" of COVID infection. A whole bunch of mumbling imaginings don't amount to a hill of beans when compared to four million deaths.

If you want my attention, you'll have to show me evidence that vaccines have caused millions of people to die within weeks and millions more are currently suffering serious long term illness. But you can't show anything like that. You're playing an infantile game of "I demand exact numbers" in order to hide the fact you're asserting phantom dangers while unable to offer any numbers of your own.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#687

Post by patrec »

selphy1 wrote: post #379
patrec wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have not gotten the vaccine as I prefer the known, extremely low risk of contacting COVID Your risk of getting Covid if not vaccinated (and leading a remotely normal lifestyle) is close to 100%. With an R0 of 6 you can't just free-ride of people who take the "unknown longitudinal risk", because even if a lot of people take the jab it's extremely unlikely we will achieve herd immunity any time soon -- even if the…

Not OP but if he has not gotten it so far with his lifestyle in 16+ months then it could be easy to think you won't get it for another 16+. Other's just don't care, me for example. I lived in a heavily lockdown country and then said fuck it, travelled to somewhere with (near) 0 covid rules and went nightclubbing almost daily till I got it. Wasn't that bad for me. And my preference is to have it again than being coerc…

> it could be easy to think you won't get it for another 16+.

And the relevance of 16 months would be? At this point it's pretty much a given that covid will become endemic. Due to general idiocy we've missed our chance of eradication.

In the 16 months you cited Covid has become both more virulent and almost twice as infectious. We'd now need around 85% population immunity to stop it from spreading, and the best vaccines only have below 90% effectiveness against symptomatic infection, and less against asymptomatic it seems. And evolution likely still has more low hanging fruit to find to make a virus that only made the jump to humans very recently better adapted to its new host.

So even if OP only has a 20% chance of contracting Covid in any one year interval (and it's likely higher), over 10 years that's a 90% chance (and 99.5% over 25). I have no idea what OP's belief that they have a extremely low chance of contracting covid is based on (that's why I asked, but unsurprisingly received no answer).

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#688

Post by native_samples »

forcry wrote: post #659
simondotau wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point we don't even need clinical trial data because their safety and efficacy have also been proven in the real world.

Regarding safety, actually no. The measures in place to capture safety data are virtualy useless, depends on self reporting, not widely known etc.. Also https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/defining-away-vaccin... Not addressing concerns of people who have suffered adverse effects, does not inspire confidence either.. https://www.c19vaxreactions.com/uploads/1/3/7/7/137732232/le...

That first link is very concerning.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#689

Post by forcry »

simondotau wrote: post #686
forcry wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because sufficient evidence is now available in hard numerical statistics. Can you show me the exact number of adverse events observed after, say pfizer covid vaccine, in real world use? Can you show me the exact number of breakthrough infections observed after, say pfizer covid vaccine, in real world use? Even if these numbers are available, then it is anyone take if they want to trust the entity that collected th…

Adverse events? Don't make me laugh. Sorry, but even the most doomsday anti-vax postulations about vaccine "adverse events" don't even come close to competing with the proven "adverse events" of COVID infection. A whole bunch of mumbling imaginings don't amount to a hill of beans when compared to four million deaths. If you want my attention, you'll have to show me evidence that vaccines have caused millions of peopl…

To be frank, I demanded the numbers because you claimed to have it. If you don't have it, it is fine.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#690

Post by forcry »

zajio1am wrote: post #536
Marcus9 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to pretend this is about "one's medical history" when it's clearly about minimizing risk of harm to others. People need to accept the reality that spreading a disease is causing harm, and that preventing people from causing harm is a core function of the rules of society. Spreading disease is unique- unlike assault or robbery or rape or murder it doesn't require the harmer to intend to cause harm, so many…

> that preventing people from causing harm is a core function of the rules of socie Many would disagree with such statement. The core function of society is IMHO preventing people from infriging on rights and freedoms of other people. That is much more complex and multivariadic issue than just 'preventing harm'. People generally cause harm to others in many interactions that are acceptable and resticting it would be…

>On the other side, there is the right to protection of health.

Please explain this right? What exactly is it? So by this right, can I demand pills for my disease free of cost?

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