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Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

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Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works if you're learning the language while you're in a place where it's spoken.

But then one got to wonder why not spend that time learning in the wild. People have forgotten how it works I suppose. It would take less energy. There are a few options to learn a language. Some say immersion. What's most effective for the brain to capture and memories is _needs_. We tend to learn languages out of a desire to add them to our skill belt. Or out of fun. And we are having a hell of a time this way. Duo…

I've found that immersion alone doesn't work for me either. I've lived with roommates from China who spoke primarily Mandarin, and despite spending a lot of time with them, trying my best to learn, and them being very patient, I never got anywhere. I was also going to a university in Germany where students could enroll in German-language engineering programs with only limited proof of German proficiency. A lot of the less-experienced German speakers ended up just hitting their heads against the wall and not learning anything (about German or their field), even though they had significant pressure to pass their classes.

In my experience, most people need both some explanation of the fundamentals of grammar/pronunciation (formal education) combined with opportunities to use the language (immersion is perfect for this, but you can practice on your own as well). Figuring out what differences in Mandarin pronunciation are essential for meaning (tone) vs. which ones are meaningless, for example, is very difficult to do from immersion alone.

It's possible for the formal education to be in the target language, but if so it has to be very carefully designed. In my experience Duolingo does a somewhat decent job at the formal education part, but is more helpful if you had some formal education in a language, so you know what variations to look out for.

It sounds like you already had quite a lot of formal education before you had a chance to do immersion. Glad it worked for you!

Duolingo has been very effective for me, not because it's perfect, but because it's something I can actually do, while moving to a Spanish-speaking country or getting a job at a restaurant run by Spanish-speakers is not. Could I learn faster? In theory, but in practice it's the only strategy I've been able to stick with and I still am making progress. It's given me the foundation to practice using the language in other ways.

Language learning also requires you to actually be invested in the learning. I don't think any learning method works if you are totally passive. You have to be trying new things. You don't have to necessarily put yourself in a situation where you need to use the language. I've seen plenty of homesick people studying abroad who really need to learn the local language, but resent it, and end up sitting around learning nothing. But you do have to want to use the language. My German teacher was great at this. German had no practical applications where I studied, but we would play games, make jokes, and generally toy around with the language, which helped us push the boundaries of our language knowledge.

Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#332
post #46

I was a cryptologic linguist for the army and went through a 16 month course of 6-7 hours of classroom instruction per day M-F, native speaking instructors, tons of immersion, and a couple hours of homework each night and left still feeling like I hardly knew the language that I was supposed to be interpreting. Unless your major in college is a specific language, you probably won't achieve any sort of fluency in your…

>>"Duolingo's valuation is more a reflection of people's desire to learn a language rather than people actually learning a language"

Duolingo is a game 1st and then a learning app. It's very engaging at first but it failed for me since I started to play it without learning much even though I was advancing (which I equated as learning, wrong..). I think it's certainly better than nothing but ultimately it's just a game.

I think it could be a great part of a structured language program. I hope that they use some of the IPO money to create such a program where you need to learn the language to advance in it.

I believe that games can be used to learn. In nature, playing is a way to learn so we should be able to use games for learning.

I never played it, but a friend used to play EverQuest and he told me how he had friends that had become Leather Craftsmen as a result of playing it. I wonder if Duolingo could be that inspiring to language learners in the future?

Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#333
post #63
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this always the comment whenever any startup or IPO is discussed on this site? Every company at this stage loses money. It would be stupid to chase profits over user or revenue growth. They have 40 million monthly active users. Registrations grew 67% YoY. Their revenue doubled in a single quarter. Expenses are mostly stock comp. They have nearly $200M cash on hand. The numbers are all solid.

> Why is this always the comment whenever any startup or IPO is discussed on this site? Because a lot of these companies seem to be doing the underpants gnomes business strategy, as in 1) Register a bunch of users 2) ??? 3) Profit

> 2) ???

Isnt the second step, show Ads

Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfect, thank you! Please let me know when you release, I'd definitely be interested in it.

Well, it's already publicly available. (: Here's the link in case you want to take a look: https://jpdb.io Just a fair bit of warning: it still has ways go to, so don't expect a perfectly polished experienced. That said, in spite of its rough edges I do already have users who use it do hundreds of cards per week and successfully immerse, so it is usable.

Thanks, looks interesting!

Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had learned Spanish a decade ago and completely forgotten it. I would argue this is why it worked well for you. You already knew the language and just needed to revise, which is something I would argue DL does do good at, especially the web version. > Also, that it has you practice reading, writing, saying, and listening. The thing is, in most courses (the home-developed ones with stories might be exceptions), yo…

>You don't learn to read texts and interpret them in the language. Are you sure? I regularly come across questions that involve a few sentences, a question, and a multi-choice answer. All in language, and some of them are somewhat tricky. Something along the lines of: "Juan's is with his girlfriend. Her name is Antonia. She is buying a green dress. Where is Antonia?" "A: A restaurant. B: A clothes store C: A party."…

[deleted]

Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say Duolingo doesn’t use native speakers? Their Spanish speakers for example are either native or indistinguishable from native speakers.

Then that's an update. For the longest time it was simply TTS, with all the downsides that contains.

They've been working on improving their recordings for years. It's a lot better now.

Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#337
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh, I've learnt 8 languages, mostly through conversation

Which languages and how well did it work for you to transition into reading books?

the Scandinavian languages + English, German, French, Spanish, Italian

I don't really read books much but in general it's easy to read once you've learned to speak and listen

Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had learned Spanish a decade ago and completely forgotten it. I would argue this is why it worked well for you. You already knew the language and just needed to revise, which is something I would argue DL does do good at, especially the web version. > Also, that it has you practice reading, writing, saying, and listening. The thing is, in most courses (the home-developed ones with stories might be exceptions), yo…

>You don't learn to read texts and interpret them in the language. Are you sure? I regularly come across questions that involve a few sentences, a question, and a multi-choice answer. All in language, and some of them are somewhat tricky. Something along the lines of: "Juan's is with his girlfriend. Her name is Antonia. She is buying a green dress. Where is Antonia?" "A: A restaurant. B: A clothes store C: A party."…

it's not multiple choice if there's only Juan answer

Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#339
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with just textbooks is you don't get to hear or speak the language at all. There's also very little structure so you're expecting a novice to know how to effectively test themselves.

The beginner textbooks I've used have accompanying CDs, and also audio available on their websites. The best beginner listening practice is to focus on minimal pairs so that you can start to hear the difference between different sounds that originally sounded the same. Some textbooks include this (I remember having to combine initials and finals in Chinese with my teacher) For speaking, Duolingo speech recognition is…

They are also boring to the extreme and don't bite size it for you. They are also unpactical format- fiddling with cd requires you to be at home and have cd player available when you want to learn. So basically you have to be near laptop.

I don't know anyone who did stick with textbook approach long enough to learn something.

Re: Duolingo reaches $6.5B valuation on day of IPO

#340

As an English speaker, DuoLingo didn’t seem that interesting to me. Then I listened to a podcast where the found Luis von Ahn explained why he started the company [1]. He grew up in Guatemala, and he noticed that learning English would essentially triple anyone’s earning potential in his country. Sure, I might never learn Chinese in DuoLingo, but if I could triple my income by doing it I bet I’d be much more motivate…

The article says the USA is their biggest market, with about 20% of the users and revenue.
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