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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#621

Post by TheCoelacanth »

machinelearning wrote: post #284
TulliusCicero wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've had mandatory vaccinations for public schools for decades, and it's largely a settled issue. This is no different. If people want to put others at risk of harm, employers are under no obligation to indulge them.

> This is no different. To be fair, it actually is different. The mechanism of action and the EUA timelines are different and unlike most other widely available vaccines. It is ok to disagree on the crux of the argument which is whether taking the vaccine is a net good, but non-factual arguments do not help.

There is no honest way to claim that this vaccine is more dangerous than a smallpox vaccine was in 1809 (first compulsory vaccination in the US).

This is far from the most dangerous vaccine ever to be required.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#622

Post by SnowProblem »

alex504 wrote: post #608
SnowProblem wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, how does Ivermectin fit into your worldview? https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-ivermectin-covid-19-coronav...

I haven't looked at it much but it doesn't seem like a reliable enough treatment that one wouldn't want to be vaccinated. It seems like there are a bunch of different drugs that have shown to be effective but none are in the ballpark of two doses of Pfizer or Moderna

I don't disagree with you. In fact, I don't know what the correct policy should be. But we have focused heavily on preventing infection, and the vaccines have been amazing at this so far. Because now of variants and decreasing immunity, we know boosters will be needed, and for how long? Also some people are having bad side effects, like blood clots, heart problems, exhaustion, and even death, making others skeptical. No doubt it is safer than covid though. But this makes me wonder if we should have more comprehensive policy. Ivermectin seems great at treatment at various stages of covid once infected without those side effects, and also seems to hold up better against the variants. But it also looks less effective overall.

Dr. John Cambell's video on it is worth a watch: https://youtu.be/R0-90kvoQac?t=610.

As is the ongoing meta-analysis: https://ivmmeta.com

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#623

Post by macinjosh »

simondotau wrote: post #619
TulliusCicero wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hell are you talking about, we have data from the clinical trials that ran last year. Those phases have completed.

At this point we don't even need clinical trial data because their safety and efficacy have also been proven in the real world.

In the short term.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#624

Post by [deleted] »

simondotau wrote: post #620
cbozeman wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should absolutely get vaccinated. After Eric Topol's appearance on Sam Harris' Making Sense podcast, the argument has been made and it's airtight... for you , yourself going and getting vaccinated of your own volition. What should not happen - what cannot happen - is the government or private entities forcing you to be vaccinated, or you lose your means of supporting yourself. It's as un-American as it gets. P…

Nobody lives in a "truly free society". This is one of these stupid American inventions that I wish would die because it's so obviously wrong—and so obviously incomplete as an intellectual concept. Everyone's fate is ultimately and inextricably intertwined with the actions of their neighbours. You can either be "truly free," or you can be a member of society. You can't be both. Here in my home country of Australia, a…

[deleted]

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#625

Post by macinjosh »

simondotau wrote: post #620
cbozeman wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should absolutely get vaccinated. After Eric Topol's appearance on Sam Harris' Making Sense podcast, the argument has been made and it's airtight... for you , yourself going and getting vaccinated of your own volition. What should not happen - what cannot happen - is the government or private entities forcing you to be vaccinated, or you lose your means of supporting yourself. It's as un-American as it gets. P…

Nobody lives in a "truly free society". This is one of these stupid American inventions that I wish would die because it's so obviously wrong—and so obviously incomplete as an intellectual concept. Everyone's fate is ultimately and inextricably intertwined with the actions of their neighbours. You can either be "truly free," or you can be a member of society. You can't be both. Here in my home country of Australia, a…

> You can either be "truly free," or you can be a member of society. You can't be both.

Says who?

I am one of the, according to you, stupid Americans who loves and demands freedom. I am forced to live in society and I am forced to participate by paying taxes. I don’t want your shot or your schools or your healthcare. I want to be left alone. You may think I am stupid but I think you are too.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#626

Post by alex504 »

SnowProblem wrote: post #622
alex504 wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't looked at it much but it doesn't seem like a reliable enough treatment that one wouldn't want to be vaccinated. It seems like there are a bunch of different drugs that have shown to be effective but none are in the ballpark of two doses of Pfizer or Moderna

I don't disagree with you. In fact, I don't know what the correct policy should be. But we have focused heavily on preventing infection, and the vaccines have been amazing at this so far. Because now of variants and decreasing immunity, we know boosters will be needed, and for how long? Also some people are having bad side effects, like blood clots, heart problems, exhaustion, and even death, making others skeptical.…

The right answer is for everyone to get vaccinated as soon as it is available to them, preferably with the mrna vaccines. Then we don't have to worry much about treatment because the disease will no longer be a part of our daily lives.

The terrible side effects you speak of effect an absolutely miniscule number of people relative to the hundreds of millions who have had the vaccine with no such effects.

Previous to this summer I wasn't so certain that the vaccine should be effectively mandated but after seeing the effect that vaccine hesitancy has on people I know longer think there is any reason businesses shouldn't mandate their employees and customers be vaccinated.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#627

Post by fuzxi »

powerslacker wrote: post #527
Bilal_io wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have to disclose that to the employer or only to the lab so they wouldn't include the positive result in the report? I am genuinely curious.

After testing at the lab, the lab reports a potential positive, employer contacts you and says that you need to talk to the lab, and the lab gives a pass upon proof of prescription.

Medical Review Officers actually have access to prescription histories. I'm not entirely clear on how it works as I haven't personally seen that end, but they can verify non-negative results without speaking to the donor and report the result as negative (clean) to the company. They only need to speak to the donor if there's a non-negative result and they have no prescriptions that could cause a false positive for that. Also the MRO contacts the donor directly using the information on the chain of custody; the employer is never made aware that there's something abnormal about the sample.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#628

Post by MichaelZuo »

cbozeman wrote: post #587
MichaelZuo wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a really solid rule for productive discussions. The great difficulty would lie in actually enforcing it on HN. Maybe some sort of cool-down timer for posters, who are otherwise polite, getting too agitated? Some kind of rate limiting for new comments on a controversial submission?

Who defines "polite"? Who defines "agitated"? One person's "asshole" is another person's "passionate".

I imagine the moderation team would? What else did you have in mind?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#629

Post by simondotau »

macinjosh wrote: post #625
simondotau wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody lives in a "truly free society". This is one of these stupid American inventions that I wish would die because it's so obviously wrong—and so obviously incomplete as an intellectual concept. Everyone's fate is ultimately and inextricably intertwined with the actions of their neighbours. You can either be "truly free," or you can be a member of society. You can't be both. Here in my home country of Australia, a…

> You can either be "truly free," or you can be a member of society. You can't be both. Says who? I am one of the, according to you, stupid Americans who loves and demands freedom. I am forced to live in society and I am forced to participate by paying taxes. I don’t want your shot or your schools or your healthcare. I want to be left alone. You may think I am stupid but I think you are too.

> one of the, according to you, stupid Americans

I never said "stupid Americans." You have the freedom to misrepresent my words, but you don't have the freedom to actually change what I wrote, which remains published above.

> I am forced to live in society

No, you want to live in society. Society is where the hamburgers are; it's where the Internet is; it's where the houses with pipes delivering an endless bounty of water and electricity are; it's where the Hacker News comments section is. Being part of a society means, to some extent, accepting that many things which affect you every day are outside of your control and will be decided by someone else.

Someone decided that you have to be licensed in order to drive a car. You didn't decide that. Your freedom to drive a car (cars being a product of collective society) along roads (also a product of collective society) is determined by the collective will of society—and enforced by the collective will of society.

> I want to be left alone.

No, you want the benefits of society without being a contributor to it. You're just cherry picking the bits you like without care for long term stability of the whole. Society is fragile. And without it we have far less of the things which—if you're honest with yourself—matter to you far more than your affluent, plushy concept of "freedom."

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#630

Post by off_sounder »

Marcus9 wrote: post #557
off_sounder wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your wrong. That's like saying a taxi cab driver who drove a criminal to a place where he committed a murder is partly responsible for the crime. The virus is the thing that's causing harm. You can't blame an individual for being skeptical about a vaccine (that has more voluntarily reports of causing harm than any other vaccine in recent history, btw) that's experimental, and unapproved. Also, the science is in on th…

Hilarious comparison, because it's actually like holding a getaway driver responsible... which is exactly how the law does work. The taxi cab driver would be relevant in February of 2020 when it was new and unknown. If you're going out in public today unvaccinated, you're knowingly complicit in spreading covid.

Wrong again, bc you're leaving out intent. People aren't taking the vaccine bc they don't want to inadvertantly put themselves in harm's way, not bc they want to infect other people.

Or maybe they're like me, and have already been infected with mild symptoms. Have you noticed that no one talks about natural immunity anymore, btw?

Again, anyone who has seen the VAERS data, and doesn't think twice about getting the vaccine, is just plain reckless.

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