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When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

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Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#31

Post by [deleted] »

masterzora wrote: post #18
gaius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I know people who IRL insist on being called by made-up names, mostly goths, you know, something like Darkraven Bloodmisery. Whatever they called themselves in Livejournal. Very few of them follow through tho' and fill in a deed poll form! For me that's the acid test: whatever it says on your passport is your real name. And government IT - the least efficient kind! - has managed to solve this. Why can't the mig…

For me that's the acid test: whatever it says on your passport is your real name. Today I learned that I don't have a real name. More seriously, though, most people I know IRL insist on not going by the name on their passport. If I had one, my name would be "Christopher", but I insist on "Chris" enough that I will not make my name "Christopher" on Google. For a less silly example, though, most people I know whose nam…

[deleted]

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#32

Post by dredmorbius »

_delirium wrote: post #17
SeoxyS wrote: post #15

For the most part, I think that Google's crackdown on pseudonyms and anonymity is actually a good thing. In most cases, anonymity online brings out the worst of us—just look at 4chan, littered with mobs of minions proliferating senseless hacking and child pornography[1]. You need but look at the news lately to see the damages of unchecked anonymity: "LulzSec this," "Anonymous that" and so on. Enforcing real names is…

I guess I haven't seen much correlation between real names and quality; more seems to be between the forum type and quality. I'd be interested in a study of that, though. Two random examples: HN is mostly pseudonyms and has pretty good quality discussion; my local newspaper now uses Facebook Connect to have users post under their real names, and its readers dutifully post a bunch of ignorant trash under their real na…

I think you're on to something here.

There are good communities and bad communities.

Norms play a huge role. Expectation plays a role, Participants' culture plays a huge role. Some communities work well based on in-real-life associations. Some work based on technical means (strong moderation tools). Some have weak moderation tools but an aggressive enforcement community and back-channel discussions for dealing with egregious abuse, though from my experience those back channels are used far more rarely than might generally be expected, and may even take on an inside-joke status.

In the same sense, real-world communities may or may not be well-behaved, and often have similar foundations. The better-behaved ones tend to be well-established (but often hard for outsiders to break into), highly policed, based on cultural norms (common religion, ethnicity, purpose, social class, interests). It's where multiple structures break down that problems become most severe.

Even short-lived communities can be very well behaved. There are few communities more transitory than college campuses, yet they have very few management issues.

The biggest hazard in either online or physical cultures is creation of a mob (root word: mobility), in which an antisocial mindset spreads through a population. What are needed aren't strong authentications ("papers, please"), but circuit breakers and dampers to dissipate these energies.

If it is in fact civility and community which are valued.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#34

Post by bugsy »

SeoxyS wrote: post #15

For the most part, I think that Google's crackdown on pseudonyms and anonymity is actually a good thing. In most cases, anonymity online brings out the worst of us—just look at 4chan, littered with mobs of minions proliferating senseless hacking and child pornography[1]. You need but look at the news lately to see the damages of unchecked anonymity: "LulzSec this," "Anonymous that" and so on. Enforcing real names is…

People love to bring up 4chan as an example to this discussion every time, and yet there is no one on 4chan who has not freely chosen to be there.

All this "know who you are talking to in order to have a friendly community" stuff is nonsense. We know why Google and Facebook and the Obama administration want this. Control and tracking. End of story.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#35

Post by sesqu »

SeoxyS wrote: post #26
saurik wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan is an example of an "anonymous" system, not a "pseudonymous" one: the difference is whether you have stable identities over time, and therefore can build up reputation (positive or negative) for a particular "pseudo-name". As long as you have mechanisms, whether social or political, to "default distrust" new users that don't have much "cred" yet (mechanisms like the "green" user rendering that Hacker News uses…

I agree with you on two points. Firstly, you are right to make the distinction between anonymous and pseudonymous, they're two different things and you can build a reputation system and healthy community on a pseudonymous system (see HN). However, I think they both exhibit the same underlying problem that comes with lack of accountability. HN has been lucky, because it's for the most part an elite community full of s…

There's more to pseudonyms than legal reasons. What I write on the internet stays there, and I expect people to google my real name, but I do not wish to have all of my lives linked together.

For example, if I'd have to use my real name, I would never speculate. With a pseudonym, I feel comfortable making mistakes and tiny contributions. Similarly, if I were in a horde guild, I would not want alliance players to dismiss my civil politics opinions.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#36

Post by mason55 »

protomyth wrote: post #8
vdm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thing applies to postal addresses. I look forward to the day when I can make my own shipping label when ordering goods online. This just needs to be a free text, multi line field. The theme you touch on is covered at length in the book 'Computer Power and Human Reason'.

Shipping address has to be on the most shoehorned pieces of data in any database in the world. The only thing that seems to have put some structure on it in the US is the 911 implementations. For most of high school years, our house was listed as "311 Behind the School" or some other variation. There were no actual street names (although I am told the electric company and only the electric company had a map with stre…

May I ask where this was? Crazy to me that there would be a place with UPS service but not E911 service.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#39

Post by protomyth »

mason55 wrote: post #36
protomyth wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shipping address has to be on the most shoehorned pieces of data in any database in the world. The only thing that seems to have put some structure on it in the US is the 911 implementations. For most of high school years, our house was listed as "311 Behind the School" or some other variation. There were no actual street names (although I am told the electric company and only the electric company had a map with stre…

May I ask where this was? Crazy to me that there would be a place with UPS service but not E911 service.

Rural ND on a reservation. E911 was implemented not too long ago (5 - 10 years). UPS in ND was always good at getting you your package. The drivers knew everyone and where they worked (or knew who to ask). Packages sent to my home actually got dropped off at my work (in person, well except the furniture type stuff, then they would warn you they were headed to your house so you could put it in the house).

The Post Office didn't do a route on the reservation (come pick it up - all PO Boxes), and FedEx was the most pain in the rear, evil group ever (drive 2 hours to pick up you package because we stop delivering in late Dec). You can work up quite the mad driving two hours to pick up network cable in a ND winter.

Around 1996, I actually had to tell a vendor we couldn't do business with them anymore because they had to ship FedEx. FedEx did get better, but don't mix up FedEx and FedEx Ground else there will be a lecture.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#40

Post by ilkandi »

gaius wrote: post #9
patio11 wrote: post #2

This title is 5 words longer than it could be, because people don't have real names. Apologies in advance for the self-citation: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-b... My name+ is confusing gibberish where I live. It is highly likely likely that when I have children, they will go through life having multiple sets of gibberish so that they can pick the non-gibberish option when asked "What is…

Well, I know people who IRL insist on being called by made-up names, mostly goths, you know, something like Darkraven Bloodmisery. Whatever they called themselves in Livejournal. Very few of them follow through tho' and fill in a deed poll form! For me that's the acid test: whatever it says on your passport is your real name. And government IT - the least efficient kind! - has managed to solve this. Why can't the mig…

On which passport? I have two.
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