Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 533 posts

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#341

Post by xkjkls »

zippergz wrote: post #56
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think it’s overvalued, but the company distanced itself from the criminal founder long ago. The company also has about 3/4 of a billion dollars in the bank. It’s basically an extremely well funded startup with a bit of a head start on the EV market at this point.

With the number of companies (from Tesla to Chevrolet) with large volumes actual EVs sold and on the road, I don't see how Nikola has a head start?

Nikola has focused on some substantially different segments of the EV market than they have. Nikola has focused on the trucking market, rather than the consumer car market, which at least is different from many of its competitors

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#342

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

zeusk wrote: post #307
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warning that a lot of companies have a trading policy that forbids employees from investing in options or any kind of derivative on their own stock. You might be allowed to make options trades on other companies in the sector (not legal advice).

I've only ever heard of this in the financial sector (even then, they can create trading plans for trades in future). But yeah sure, I am not a lawyer or a fiduciary and this is not legal or fiduciary financial advise.

My last few big tech employers have had a policy forbidding me from trading in options or derivatives on the stock, as a lowly software engineer.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#343

Post by xkjkls »

electriclove wrote: post #340
xkjkls wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think Elon Musk is obviously different? He's definitely had many events where he has lied about aspects of his business. You could argue that it doesn't matter now that he has built something real, but that's down to a lot of luck, not ethical backbone.

Musk has built many things over the past Many years. Though he may talk about even more, bringing EVs to the masses and creating reusable rockets is something he deserves full credit for. It has nothing to do with ethics. A rational person would not equate Musk with Milton.

Not equate, realize that they are both part of a pattern.

We also should not let Elon Musk's actions only be evaluated in their totality. We can argue about the net sum of his contributions, but it should be fundamentally irrelevant to evaluating any individual one. He shouldn't lie or allow fraud. His actions with the Solar Roof launch, Boring Company, Self Driving, and funding tweets all cross ethical lines that we as a country need to make clear are not what we want from our business leaders.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#344

Post by superfunny »

speedgoose wrote: post #282

> He was freed on a $100 million bond secured against two of his properties in Utah. It's nice to be rich in this part of the world.

I doubt that he had to put up $100 million to be released - probably more like $1m to $2m. When Tom Barack was released on a $250m bond earlier this month, it was secured by $5m in cash.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#345

Post by renewiltord »

yupper32 wrote: post #309
renewiltord wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, if they had shorted it at the time they made the comment, they would currently be ahead.

And if the ball landed on black instead of red the last time I bet on roulette I'd also be ahead. Performance analysis like this after the fact doesn't really have any relevance unless there was some information missed.

Further reading on this in Adaptive Markets : Financial Evolution at the Speed of Thought. Has some theories around information flow and market participant behavior that permit edge to persist.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#346

Post by superfunny »

IlliOnato wrote: post #196

Nikola looked like a fairly obvious scam to me the first time I've read about them. I find it surprising and strange that they were able to hoodwink so many people.

It sounds a lot like Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos - some investors want to find the next Steve Jobs so badly that they get blinded by the sophistry.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#347

Post by gpt5 »

speedgoose wrote: post #268
gpt5 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most gas stations will not change to charging station. Instead, every parking place will eventually have its own charging outlet.

Most gas station in the Oslo area in Norway have fast chargers.

The point is that when every parking spot is a fast charger, why bother with the gas station model?

Even in our way to get there, it makes more sense to put the charging at the origin or destination, except for long trips.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#348

Post by haneefmubarak »

nonfamous wrote: post #172
twelve40 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This Nikola thing looks pretty weird indeed, but to be fair, Musk's name for his company is also not very original, since he (or whoever) also just took the dude's name even though he had absolutely nothing to do with him.

Tesla is also an SI unit associated with electricity. Then again, are there any companies called "Ohm" or "Ampere"?

There's a computing startup founded by ex-Intel folks named Ampere

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#349

Post by [deleted] »

borkyborkbork wrote: post #311
itsoktocry wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This person is a troll. That's a baseless accusation, where are the mods? > They have been spotted driving all over the place and doing real world testing on actual highways and in cold weather. Prototypes, with zero evidence they can achieve the claimed specifications. If you know otherwise, please, show us all. They are dependent on 4680 cells, which do not exist. They don't even have a factory, and they claimed…

You have to be a troll if you are trying to convince people that a self propulsive vehicle, and an unpowered structure that can only move by being pushed or rolling down a hill are the same thing.

[deleted]

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#350

Post by slownews45 »

xkjkls wrote: post #320
jdminhbg wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure creating a multibillion dollar vaporware fraud shell company and being a dick on Twitter are comparable sins.

I'm not sure you are following the Elon-Solar City case if you think Elon's only sin is being a dick on Twitter. Or the original $420 funding a share saga. Elon Musk's repeated fake-it-till-you-make-it behavior and the unwillingness of regulators to crack down on it spawns Trevor Miltons.

The SEC did enforce against tesla - when Elon tweeted "Tesla’s stock price is too high imo" - they began an investigation and subpoenaed records because they felt this this had not been approved by attorneys (it wasn't - elon claimed it was his personal opinion). So they went after him for this.

They also went after him for a lot of other stuff.

Note that they haven't gone after folks for failure to deliver issues on sales which is usually caused by shorting stocks such as Tesla's and others. Even though you'd think the basics of a regulated market is that folks selling shares actually own and will deliver them if someone buys them.

Post reply on HN