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As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared

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Re: As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared

#11

Post by lhnn »

brazzy wrote: post #8
lhnn wrote: post #4

Is this Hacker News? I suppose it might be tied to our theme by the story of the inventor. I think it's a shame that the US federal government has ballooned the way it has, and I believe it's a slap in the face of the Constitution. Discarding the concept of mens rea while maintaining more than 250,000 pages of regulation is malicious, and anyone supporting this movement is not someone who should be in political power…

What I don't understand (as a non-US-citizen, mind you) is how the fact that these are federal laws is relevant at all. It sounds to me like the problem is the number of obscure laws, the vagueness of the offenses, and the lack of mens rea requirement. Surely it would be just as bad if these were state laws (for the citizens of that state, anyway)? Or are there for some reason no state laws of that kind? If so, what…

>It sounds to me like the problem is the number of obscure laws, the vagueness of the offenses, and the lack of mens rea requirement.

You're right. There is another issue, though, relating to the massive power of the central government. --- Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ---

The US was designed to be a Federal system, with all non-delegated powers belonging to the states, not the central government.

Besides the fact that our nation is meant to have a small Federal government, it is easier to manipulate and fight unjust laws at lower levels of government than the behemoth that is Washington, DC.

Re: As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared

#13

Post by Cushman »

Alex3917 wrote: post #7
thinkcomp wrote: post #6

Thanks to the State of California, virtually every private university president and trustee is now a criminal, too. http://www.quora.com/Aaron-Greenspan/The-California-Law-That...

Meh, every single person in the US is already a felon. We all possess schedule I drugs in our bodies[1], and there is plenty of legal precedent saying that you can be convicted of narcotics possession for drugs that are in your body. [1] DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, Anandamide, etc.

That's a great critique of the CSA, but it's not really legally relevant. No court would convict for possession of endogenous DMT, and then that would be the precedent.

Or to put it more simply, you're innocent until proven guilty. Felon means conviction.

Re: As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared

#14

Post by tuoru »

I have no problem whatsoever with a law that criminalizes stealing arrowheads, or other artifacts, from archaeological sites. I have no problem with laws that prohibit poisoning water, dumping chemicals, killing endangered species, or other environmental crimes. So, if this is proliferation, please sign me up for more. I know that these things were not crimes fifty years ago, but we are better off now for having these laws. Sure, there are some stupid ones, like the Smokey Bear thing, but come on--has anyone been charged with that law?

Re: As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared

#15

Post by georgieporgie »

tuoru wrote: post #14

I have no problem whatsoever with a law that criminalizes stealing arrowheads, or other artifacts, from archaeological sites. I have no problem with laws that prohibit poisoning water, dumping chemicals, killing endangered species, or other environmental crimes. So, if this is proliferation, please sign me up for more. I know that these things were not crimes fifty years ago, but we are better off now for having thes…

The laws are poorly written if they don't differentiate between criminal intent versus perfectly reasonable ignorance.

Re: As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared

#17

Post by bugsy »

tuoru wrote: post #14

I have no problem whatsoever with a law that criminalizes stealing arrowheads, or other artifacts, from archaeological sites. I have no problem with laws that prohibit poisoning water, dumping chemicals, killing endangered species, or other environmental crimes. So, if this is proliferation, please sign me up for more. I know that these things were not crimes fifty years ago, but we are better off now for having thes…

I hope you read more of the article than the first paragraph and realized they were not at an archeological site and did not steal any arrowheads, they were merely looking for them as a father and son hobby. No arrowheads were found, but the act of merely looking is criminal, which they were not aware of.

Re: As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared

#18

Post by [deleted] »

Cushman wrote: post #13
Alex3917 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, every single person in the US is already a felon. We all possess schedule I drugs in our bodies[1], and there is plenty of legal precedent saying that you can be convicted of narcotics possession for drugs that are in your body. [1] DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, Anandamide, etc.

That's a great critique of the CSA, but it's not really legally relevant. No court would convict for possession of endogenous DMT, and then that would be the precedent. Or to put it more simply, you're innocent until proven guilty. Felon means conviction.

[deleted]

Re: As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared

#19

Post by padobson »

'Current law provides a range of options to protect society, he says. "It would be horrible if they started repealing laws and taking those options away."'

That's the most disturbing line in the piece to me. Laws used to frustrate, oppress, or even enslave a citizenry are always written under the guise of offering 'options for protection'. Why do we need to wiretap private citizens? To keep private citizens safe of course.

Then, there's laws written to keep large companies like Exxon or WalMart from polluting the environment or mistreating their workers, but prosecutors can't get convictions against their herculean legal teams, so they end up convicting small businesses and private citizens because they're easier targets.

The problem with these laws is not that they criminalize non-criminals, its that the actual criminals aren't impeded by them at all.

Re: As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared

#20

Post by [deleted] »

Cushman wrote: post #13
Alex3917 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, every single person in the US is already a felon. We all possess schedule I drugs in our bodies[1], and there is plenty of legal precedent saying that you can be convicted of narcotics possession for drugs that are in your body. [1] DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, Anandamide, etc.

That's a great critique of the CSA, but it's not really legally relevant. No court would convict for possession of endogenous DMT, and then that would be the precedent. Or to put it more simply, you're innocent until proven guilty. Felon means conviction.

[deleted]
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