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When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

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Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#11
As much as I understand the privacy concerns etc., am I the only one who REALLY hates being on Facebook and seeing a fake name with all sorts of odd punctuation and random capitalization in a list that consists otherwise of clean "Firstname Lastname"s? Even seeing "Equality" as someone's middle name bothers me to an extent.

Maybe I have OCD, but I'm personally glad I don't have to see this on Google+ for now (but I wouldn't be surprised if they changed their policy on this within a week or two given how fast they acted in response to the "gender must be public" feedback).

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#12
post #9
post #2

This title is 5 words longer than it could be, because people don't have real names. Apologies in advance for the self-citation: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-b... My name+ is confusing gibberish where I live. It is highly likely likely that when I have children, they will go through life having multiple sets of gibberish so that they can pick the non-gibberish option when asked "What is…

Well, I know people who IRL insist on being called by made-up names, mostly goths, you know, something like Darkraven Bloodmisery. Whatever they called themselves in Livejournal. Very few of them follow through tho' and fill in a deed poll form! For me that's the acid test: whatever it says on your passport is your real name. And government IT - the least efficient kind! - has managed to solve this. Why can't the mig…

To be fair, the US government has a bludgeon that little old Google does not have - the threat of force.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#13
Having a Dutch surname like "Spring in 't Veld" (roughly translates to "Jump in th' Field") causes all kinds of problems on form entries and editors that add smart quotes.

- Many non-sanitized SQL queries fail,

- buggy URL or HTML parsers create code like:

  /spring-in/
  
- Pagetitles like: Spring in /'t Veld

- Added smart quotes "Spring in ’t Veld" from Word or Rich Text Editors cause problems with sorting and identity consolidation.

- Stripping the quote character trips a 2-letter requirement.

- etc.

It is unlikely that people will name their son

  Robert';) DROP TABLE Students;--
But you should at least prepare your db queries for a quote. :)

http://xkcd.com/327/

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#14
post #9
post #2

This title is 5 words longer than it could be, because people don't have real names. Apologies in advance for the self-citation: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-b... My name+ is confusing gibberish where I live. It is highly likely likely that when I have children, they will go through life having multiple sets of gibberish so that they can pick the non-gibberish option when asked "What is…

Well, I know people who IRL insist on being called by made-up names, mostly goths, you know, something like Darkraven Bloodmisery. Whatever they called themselves in Livejournal. Very few of them follow through tho' and fill in a deed poll form! For me that's the acid test: whatever it says on your passport is your real name. And government IT - the least efficient kind! - has managed to solve this. Why can't the mig…

And government IT - the least efficient kind! - has managed to solve this.

Governments essentially avoid this problem, and they have for generations, because they realized that names are intractably hard. This is why they give people numbers instead.

Here's my name written in my passport (US): "MC KENZIE PATRICK JOHNATHAN" The Passport Control Center is the only organization which thinks I have a space in my name.

If you go to Cook County and grab a copy of my birth certificate, it says "Patrick Jonathan McKenzie". I was a poor speller as a kid and thought Johnathan had two Hs until I was a teenager. Whoopsie. Now it does because it's just too much hassle to go get it changed now.

The Illinois DMV thinks I'm Patrick McKenzie. Ogaki City Hall thinks I'm McKenzie Patrick Johnathan in one part of the office, ミッケンジーパトリック in another part, パトリックミッケンジー in another, and ミッケンジーP in a fourth part. The national tax agency said, direct quote, "Sorry about our software being unable to accept your name. On the bright side, we really couldn't care less, as long as you pay your taxes on time."

Well, I know people who IRL insist on being called by made-up names, mostly goths, you know, something like Darkraven Bloodmisery.

I know a lot of people IRL who insist on being called by made-up names. I know Japanese and Chinese people who have "use names", because some white folks think Hideyuki is a mouthful and couldn't guess that he's a man. I know neighborhoods in Chicago where Irish Catholics are so thick on the ground that you'd better come up with a nickname if you're a Patrick or a Mary because otherwise half the class will have a hash collision with you. (I was Patrick Johnathan -- the other Patrick Jonathan beat me at rock paper scissors and claimed the coveted PJ.)

I also know some goths who use made up names, including a Robert who -- cheeky blighter -- insists he is really a Bob.

Also, just a self-preservation tip: don't ever repeat that comment near a liberal arts faculty if you value your sanity. They will be on you like vegetarian tigers/esses/etc on a fresh, juicy bit of fair trade tofu.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#15
For the most part, I think that Google's crackdown on pseudonyms and anonymity is actually a good thing. In most cases, anonymity online brings out the worst of us—just look at 4chan, littered with mobs of minions proliferating senseless hacking and child pornography[1]. You need but look at the news lately to see the damages of unchecked anonymity: "LulzSec this," "Anonymous that" and so on.

Enforcing real names is a good thing. It means people finally start to take responsibility for their actions, and there is accountability. People behave much better when the threat of embarrassment is in the balance.

I only see one legitimate reason for someone to be allowed a pseudonym: if they are more widely known by that name than their real name. This applies to authors, artists as well as web community members. The solution is easy: allow a nickname field in addition to your real name: [First] "[Nickname]" [Last]. Some already do it. Day9, for example, goes by Sean "day9" Plott online.

Lastly, I realize the hypocrisy of posting to Hacker News without my name visibly attached, so for the record, I am Kenneth Ballenegger from kswizz.com.

[1]: I have browsed thru /b/ many times, and the behavior of people there truly is the worst I've seen ever. I was in the middle of the SF Giants riots last year, and the people setting fire to cars and breaking windows seemed more civil by comparaison.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#16

As much as I understand the privacy concerns etc., am I the only one who REALLY hates being on Facebook and seeing a fake name with all sorts of odd punctuation and random capitalization in a list that consists otherwise of clean "Firstname Lastname"s? Even seeing "Equality" as someone's middle name bothers me to an extent. Maybe I have OCD, but I'm personally glad I don't have to see this on Google+ for now (but I w…

I totally agree. I can't stand people who put random crap in their Facebook names (and actually tend to unfriend them.)

Similarly, I religiously give everybody on my IM buddy list their real name. I would go crazy if everyday I only saw pseudonyms and had no idea who was who.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#17
post #15

For the most part, I think that Google's crackdown on pseudonyms and anonymity is actually a good thing. In most cases, anonymity online brings out the worst of us—just look at 4chan, littered with mobs of minions proliferating senseless hacking and child pornography[1]. You need but look at the news lately to see the damages of unchecked anonymity: "LulzSec this," "Anonymous that" and so on. Enforcing real names is…

I guess I haven't seen much correlation between real names and quality; more seems to be between the forum type and quality. I'd be interested in a study of that, though.

Two random examples: HN is mostly pseudonyms and has pretty good quality discussion; my local newspaper now uses Facebook Connect to have users post under their real names, and its readers dutifully post a bunch of ignorant trash under their real names.

I do like having semi-stable identities, whether pseudonymous or real. It makes more of a sense of community if you actually recognize people and ascribe viewpoints/personality/etc. to them, rather than every post in effect being written by RandomUser92736 with no continuity between discussions, or any ability to form within-community reputation.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#18
post #9
post #2

This title is 5 words longer than it could be, because people don't have real names. Apologies in advance for the self-citation: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-b... My name+ is confusing gibberish where I live. It is highly likely likely that when I have children, they will go through life having multiple sets of gibberish so that they can pick the non-gibberish option when asked "What is…

Well, I know people who IRL insist on being called by made-up names, mostly goths, you know, something like Darkraven Bloodmisery. Whatever they called themselves in Livejournal. Very few of them follow through tho' and fill in a deed poll form! For me that's the acid test: whatever it says on your passport is your real name. And government IT - the least efficient kind! - has managed to solve this. Why can't the mig…

For me that's the acid test: whatever it says on your passport is your real name.

Today I learned that I don't have a real name.

More seriously, though, most people I know IRL insist on not going by the name on their passport. If I had one, my name would be "Christopher", but I insist on "Chris" enough that I will not make my name "Christopher" on Google.

For a less silly example, though, most people I know whose names are not derived from their full legal names are some form of non-cisgendered people who simply don't identify with their given names. And, in the US at least, for most purposes it is simply not necessary to go the court-decreed route (we don't have a strict equivalence of a deed poll form for name changes as far as I know) and bringing court and public record into things can be unnecessary trouble until they fall out of those "most purposes".

Of course, these are only a couple of reasons why one might wish not to use their passport names online, but the main point is: it's rarely as simple as you think.

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#19
post #15

For the most part, I think that Google's crackdown on pseudonyms and anonymity is actually a good thing. In most cases, anonymity online brings out the worst of us—just look at 4chan, littered with mobs of minions proliferating senseless hacking and child pornography[1]. You need but look at the news lately to see the damages of unchecked anonymity: "LulzSec this," "Anonymous that" and so on. Enforcing real names is…

So is there no good reason one may wish to remain anonymous or pseudonymous? Because I can think of many.

-- Chris Sauro, masterzora.net

Re: When operating "at web scale", users often simply don't have "real names"

#20
post #15

For the most part, I think that Google's crackdown on pseudonyms and anonymity is actually a good thing. In most cases, anonymity online brings out the worst of us—just look at 4chan, littered with mobs of minions proliferating senseless hacking and child pornography[1]. You need but look at the news lately to see the damages of unchecked anonymity: "LulzSec this," "Anonymous that" and so on. Enforcing real names is…

4chan is an example of an "anonymous" system, not a "pseudonymous" one: the difference is whether you have stable identities over time, and therefore can build up reputation (positive or negative) for a particular "pseudo-name".

As long as you have mechanisms, whether social or political, to "default distrust" new users that don't have much "cred" yet (mechanisms like the "green" user rendering that Hacker News uses for this purpose), you are not going to lose the benefits of "anonymous" vs "real names".

In fact, one might even argue that claiming otherwise misses the point of names: even when I am going by just the name "saurik" (seldom, but it happens: like here on this site), I care deeply about what I say as it affects my identity.

As an example near and dear to many people on this site, no one had known who "why the lucky stiff" was (maybe they do now? not keeping up with that much); but, if he had started being an idiot on forums and started "proliferating senseless hacking and child pornography", you can be certain that that would have been quite bad for him.

(In fact, if your real name is not known by anyone, and everyone knows the entity that actually has all of the reputation capital you draw on on a daily basis, then arguably there is no risk in doing something stupid with your real name, and total risk in doing so with your pseudonym.)

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