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Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#251

Post by chasebank »

shawnz wrote: post #183
chasebank wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course, some speculation can lead to improved market efficiency. I suppose we should define at what level of speculation deems a speculative market. "I think most research shows that a moderate amount of speculation actually decreases volatility and makes market manipulation more difficult." I'd be interested to read such research. To me, this current craze (Stocks, housing, crypto, etc) just doesn't pass the…

> I'd be interested to read such research. See here for example: https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/wp201... > It doesn't make sense. I tell my friends, either things correct in a large way or we're going to be eating $50 cheeseburgers. Why not? My parents paid 50c for a cheeseburger in their youth and now I pay $5. What doesn't make sense about inflation? It is the expected way in which our marke…

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read. From the abstract, it clearly references only hedge funds and swap traders in the study. Most speculative markets get in trouble when retail gets involved.

> Why not? My parents paid 50c for a cheeseburger in their youth and now I pay $5. What doesn't make sense about inflation? It is the expected way in which our market works.

My point is that current asset prices only make sense relative to an $50 cheeseburger at current prices, not that inflation cannot occur and cheeseburgers won't be $50 in the future. Again, I don't have the answer. Wish I did. Wouldn't be reading HN at work but building golf courses :).

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#252

Post by dawnerd »

engineer_22 wrote: post #73
dawnerd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I invested too, doesn’t mean it was necessarily a bad investment. You gotta take risks if you want to get in early on potential huge gains. Luckily I didn’t put too much in. Let that be a lesson to anyone, don’t invest into speculative companies unless you’re willing to lose it all.

don't conflate investment and speculation

It’s all the same. Investment firms all the time throwing money at speculation. It’s all about what your risk tolerance is.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#254

Post by lotsofpulp »

azinman2 wrote: post #248
lotsofpulp wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is fossil fuel cars will remain competitive with electric cars (cost per mile wise), since the more demand for fossil fuels drop, the cheaper it gets to operate fossil fuel cars. It really depends when the governments actually start banning fossil fuel cars. Or implements higher fossil fuel taxes, but I do not see a chance of that. And I do not see bans for new fossil fuel cars actually going into effect for…

At some point gas stations won’t make as much money and thus will start changing to electric. The supply could flip with current electric charging stations which will move the needle. We’ll also see what gets manufactured… there might be a time where few gas options will exist.

I do not see that point being in near future. All the infrastructure for fossil fuel delivery is already installed and can easily last decades. It will be a slow shift as more and more gas stations shift more of their space to electric charging. Or maybe they get obviated altogether since you can charge anywhere, but not in next 10 or even 20 years.

Diesel is still diesel when it comes to power too, and I have not heard of any electric alternative that can compare. I expect that to stick around even longer.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#255

Post by SmellTheGlove »

pvarangot wrote: post #204
yup00 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Financial markets are not coupled to real economics anymore. They’re coupled to speculative gamesmanship. Whoever can generate statistics to captivate the masses who do not understand them, via press releases, and media blitzes. That sounds cynical, but I “hob nob” with people invited to Davos, and run depts at Ivy League schools. Behind closed doors these are the conversations I’ve been privy too. How to captivate t…

I'm usually a very negative person but another side of the coin here is that if you were good at this "speculative generation of statics to captivate" the best way to raise money was "gaming" big capital. With the risk profile of retail investors changing and more risky ways to trade on public markets becoming accepted comes a positive aspect of the naturalization of highly speculative single picks on the stock marke…

It sounds like your cult is Theta Gang then! Seriously though that seems to be what the quiet crowd is doing - taking advantage of the premiums caused by the general crazy that permeates the market. I don’t know enough to sell options but I keep meaning to read up.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#256

Post by sebzim4500 »

Sebguer wrote: post #128
lordnacho wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Musk joined after it had been founded? Did he change the name?

No, Musk had literally nothing to do with the name, just a continuation of his myth as anything more than a guy with a lot of money.

I think Bezos has demonstrated quite convincingly that simply having a lot of money does not mean you can compete with SpaceX. Similarly, I don't know much about the automotive industry, but turning a company with a few employees into one of the most valuable companies in the world is not easy, even if you have $100 million to play with at the start.

It's OK to simultaneously believe that "Elon Musk is very effective at growing engineering businesses to the point that they disrupt entire industries" and also that "Elon Musk is not as smart as he thinks he is, and his tweets are embarrassing".

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#257

Post by gpt5 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #233
bagels wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if your hypothesis is that companies like Mazda won't wither in the inevitable electric car disruption.

My guess is fossil fuel cars will remain competitive with electric cars (cost per mile wise), since the more demand for fossil fuels drop, the cheaper it gets to operate fossil fuel cars. It really depends when the governments actually start banning fossil fuel cars. Or implements higher fossil fuel taxes, but I do not see a chance of that. And I do not see bans for new fossil fuel cars actually going into effect for…

Most gas stations will not change to charging station. Instead, every parking place will eventually have its own charging outlet.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#258

Post by BuffaloBagel »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #222
BuffaloBagel wrote: post #60

My web services company built an eBay/Craigslist clone for Milton about 10 years ago. Trump level bullshitter but with an indomitable drive. Despite being a returned Mormon missionary Trevor has a loose ethical screw.

Any good stories you can share?

He told us he has just cashed out of an alarm company for $1M when he engaged us. Turns out that was typical Trevor hype... he had gotten nowhere near that amount. Would sometimes pay his invoices with stacks of $50 American Express prepaid cards. Drove my bookkeeper bananas. I assume the reason was rewards related. His claims for traffic on his Upillar platform were ludicrous; made out of whole cloth. Hired Glenn Beck to shill for him. Drove a comically lifted 4WD truck with UPillar emblazoned all over it and seem to always have plenty of motorized toys... boats, ATVs, etc. All funded by investors. At the end he poached one of our employees and left us. I was glad to be rid of him; the engagement was never comfortable for me.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#259

Post by pacificmint »

nonfamous wrote: post #172
twelve40 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This Nikola thing looks pretty weird indeed, but to be fair, Musk's name for his company is also not very original, since he (or whoever) also just took the dude's name even though he had absolutely nothing to do with him.

Tesla is also an SI unit associated with electricity. Then again, are there any companies called "Ohm" or "Ampere"?

Not the company name, but the Chevy Volt was sold as the Ampera in Europe.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#260

Post by [deleted] »

itsoktocry wrote: post #137
api wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the name screams transparent fraud, a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Weren't there VCs who put money into this? What were they thinking? Were they being amoral and hoping to ride this pump and dump or did they actually buy into this shit?

> a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. > What were they thinking? Were they being amoral and hoping to ride this pump and dump or did they actually buy into this shit? Fundamentally, what have they done that's so evil compared to, say, the multitu…

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