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Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

cnbc.com

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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#191

Post by pinewurst »

kortilla wrote: post #134
pinewurst wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was much more true in the long ago era of regulation, (mostly) autarky, and limited market info/trading barriers. I've looked at "Security Analysis" and it's very much a historical piece - railroads and (practically) buggy whips. Things change relatively faster these days. Yesterday, Kodak was the bluest of chips; today, pretty much a joke. Heck, look at Buffett in the last decade - I'll bet he fully Gra…

Kodak is a terrible example. That company had a long decline into irrelevance. Big companies have been doing that forever.

It's a good example because it shows the gulf between organizational/innovational rot and impeccable bookkeeping.

Kodak's signs of decay were visible at least as long ago as the late 70s vis a vis the Polaroid patent infringement case (and the cheesiness of Kodak's own knockoffs).

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#192

Post by aiisjustanif »

anyfactor wrote: post #138
_game_of_life wrote: post #48

This should not be surprising to anyone. Arstechnica has followed Nikola's terrible and obvious fraud(s) for years now: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/nikola-admits-to-making... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/12/nikola-stock-craters-af... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/nikola-patented-a-stole... And many more... The speculation around this stock has been insane for many years now: https://arstechnica.c…

I browse through a lot of niche investing social media groups. One of the more liked posts on a Nikola investment group was, "If "they" cared about the future, the earth and the renewable energy issue, they would let whatever Trevor did slide." Surprisingly, I saw similar posts about Musk on the Thailand rescuer tweet and the price too high tweet. You are not betting against the fundamentals or the realities of the s…

You are still betting against the product those people are building. Their sentiment doesn’t matter much when the product weak and company is committing fraud for personal gain or to bolster the promises of the product, like Thernos, most (not all of the time, by any means) of the time history has dealt with this.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#193

Post by pinewurst »

WJW wrote: post #145
pinewurst wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was much more true in the long ago era of regulation, (mostly) autarky, and limited market info/trading barriers. I've looked at "Security Analysis" and it's very much a historical piece - railroads and (practically) buggy whips. Things change relatively faster these days. Yesterday, Kodak was the bluest of chips; today, pretty much a joke. Heck, look at Buffett in the last decade - I'll bet he fully Gra…

> just isn't worth the effort for the average ownership span. There's no rule that says you need to hold stocks for the same average period that the rest of the market does. Analyzing securities and purchasing those that are undervalued is still an extremely profitable activity at many hedge funds and prop trading desks. The fact that the average investor is more FOMO-driven these days only makes sound analysis more…

I don't disagree - just want to note a difference between sufficient analysis and overthinking the problem (IMHO).

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#194

Post by yup00 »

aeternum wrote: post #189
yup00 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Financial markets are not coupled to real economics anymore. They’re coupled to speculative gamesmanship. Whoever can generate statistics to captivate the masses who do not understand them, via press releases, and media blitzes. That sounds cynical, but I “hob nob” with people invited to Davos, and run depts at Ivy League schools. Behind closed doors these are the conversations I’ve been privy too. How to captivate t…

Marketing matters a lot, and NKLA was quite popular or even infamous there. A known brand does have value, even according to 'real economics'. Most investors seem to have been valuing that aspect and completely discounting the engineering/tech.

It helps me to think in terms of particles and waves.

A person is a particle and their influence is a wave.

I’m not so sure light is both, but our cognition enables seeing it as both.

Mirror neurons fire when we engage a behavior or see it performed.

Our culture is built upon a meme repeating protectionist like chants for the rich, deflation for the middle class, and stagnation of the poor.

Repeat, fire mirror neurons.

It’s not perfect mind control though cause once you know how the sausage is made, why give that particle (rich person) reverence?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#195

Post by yourenotsmart »

tenpies wrote: post #164
zippergz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the number of companies (from Tesla to Chevrolet) with large volumes actual EVs sold and on the road, I don't see how Nikola has a head start?

Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks. How much would a Tesla with only prototype Semis and a factory under construction be valued at? About $5 BB actually sounds quite right, maybe even undervalued depending on cultist zealotry and SEC enforcement levels.

> Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks.

See, this level of misinformation is a big reason the company even exists yet.

Tesla has been selling EVs for years now, and has prototyped their own trucks based on their own existing drivetrain, battery pack IP, software.

What Nikola has, when we remove the fraudulent claims, is a prototype built by Iveco, with zero substantial IP from Nikola.

To say Nikola is at the same stage of Tesla is not even wrong. They've never built a working truck in their entire existence. Their "stage" is at a super position from nothing to infinity, as long as you don't look, and no one has ever been allowed to look, at the risk of getting a dead cat.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#197

Post by alasdair_ »

WJW wrote: post #145
pinewurst wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was much more true in the long ago era of regulation, (mostly) autarky, and limited market info/trading barriers. I've looked at "Security Analysis" and it's very much a historical piece - railroads and (practically) buggy whips. Things change relatively faster these days. Yesterday, Kodak was the bluest of chips; today, pretty much a joke. Heck, look at Buffett in the last decade - I'll bet he fully Gra…

> just isn't worth the effort for the average ownership span. There's no rule that says you need to hold stocks for the same average period that the rest of the market does. Analyzing securities and purchasing those that are undervalued is still an extremely profitable activity at many hedge funds and prop trading desks. The fact that the average investor is more FOMO-driven these days only makes sound analysis more…

This is true up until the point where your logically sound short of GME comes up against “apes together stronk”

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#198

Post by misiti3780 »

ren_engineer wrote: post #184
misiti3780 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of Tesla haters on HN is bizarre.

Musk is pretty much the dream of what every nerd wants to become. There's a lot of jaded people on HN who think they are just as smart/talented as Musk but don't have anywhere near the success. They deal with the cognitive dissonance by calling him a fraud/scammer or wanting to see him fail. Fanboys of Musk aren't much better, Musk just seems to attract extremists on either side of the aisle who either love him or ha…

I agree, but regardless I dont see why we call cant agree that for all of the guy's faults, he is done some truly incredible things and he is still pretty young. He is a net positive for the world.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#199

Post by vlunkr »

Sebguer wrote: post #128
lordnacho wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Musk joined after it had been founded? Did he change the name?

No, Musk had literally nothing to do with the name, just a continuation of his myth as anything more than a guy with a lot of money.

Is it really a significant part of his myth that he named the company?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#200

Post by IlliOnato »

nonfamous wrote: post #172
twelve40 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This Nikola thing looks pretty weird indeed, but to be fair, Musk's name for his company is also not very original, since he (or whoever) also just took the dude's name even though he had absolutely nothing to do with him.

Tesla is also an SI unit associated with electricity. Then again, are there any companies called "Ohm" or "Ampere"?

https://ampere.shop
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