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Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

cnbc.com

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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#171

Post by rantwasp »

Aperocky wrote: post #118
sidcool wrote: post #103

It's hard to overstate the insane difficulty of running an automotive company profitably. Tesla is an exception. I don't sympathize with Trevor, but I can understand why he did what he did. It's a fraud, but I get it why it was done.

What's more surprising is the incompetence to come up with a working prototype over years with so much funding! It's not like there are no electric motors or large batteries on the market. It just have to work for a good hour and they can't even do that. It's theranos level of embarrassment and fraud, maybe even worse, because theranos might have been an physical impossibility but Tesla already demonstrated that it i…

next startup: an electric car that analyzes your health while you drive. AI to self drive AND to predict if you’ll develop any health issues!

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#172

Post by nonfamous »

twelve40 wrote: post #106
mikestew wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought when hearing of the company was the J. T. Marlin "brokerage" from the movie Boiler Room . And for those viewers that didn't get the joke, the movie helpfully provides a scene where other brokers in a bar make fun of the uncanny resemblance to "J. P. Morgan". Bonus point for the ethical similarities between J. T. Marlin and Nikola.

This Nikola thing looks pretty weird indeed, but to be fair, Musk's name for his company is also not very original, since he (or whoever) also just took the dude's name even though he had absolutely nothing to do with him.

Tesla is also an SI unit associated with electricity. Then again, are there any companies called "Ohm" or "Ampere"?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#173

Post by millerm »

lvl100 wrote: post #104

How is this any different from what Elon Musk told his investors for the past decade?

I was wondering how soon someone would try to trash Tesla (or Elon) as it's completely off-topic and a false equivalence.

I see a lot of Teslas on the road, as I also drive one.

I see a lot of Superchargers around, and see (yup, I trust it) a lot of people around the world using them.

I see a lot of Powerwalls getting sold and installed.

I see huge Megapacks getting sold and installed.

I see a lot of solar being sold and installed.

I see manufacturing plants being built around the world.

I see that Panasonic is selling Tesla millions upon millions of battery cells, so they must be going somewhere.

I saw their earnings report for Q2 2021 and it sure seems like they are doing very well.

I see they have massive data and super computing power, currently being used and being built.

I see there are 70k+ people working for and getting paid to work for Tesla.

Oh, FSD is late. We've all underestimated our projects. So, this is the equivalency you're looking for? I see betas of FSD in cars on the road. I know people that are actively testing it. It's a hard problem, not a lie. It's just someone being overly optimistic, not overtly optimistic. I'm an investor, I understand the problem because I know what I invest in. I am not angry nor do I believe it to be a lie.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#174

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

ineedasername wrote: post #154
_c3bx wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you think of them, the Tesla fanboys have been proven more right then wrong and the likes of Matt Levine (and Bloomberg) are just bitter at this point. A lot of EV startups like NKLA are going to come and go but very few if any will be able to replicate Teslas success in the long term. Retail investors are not always stupid, many of the same Tesla investors have been shorting NKLA since it came on via a spac…

and the likes of Matt Levine (and Bloomberg) are just bitter Matt Levine has also struck me as more amused-- and perhaps confused-- than bitter about this.

Matt writes brilliantly on irrational, ridiculous, silly happenings in the world of finance. My guess is he's happy for a such a steady stream of subject matter.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#175

Post by detaro »

tenpies wrote: post #164
zippergz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the number of companies (from Tesla to Chevrolet) with large volumes actual EVs sold and on the road, I don't see how Nikola has a head start?

Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks. How much would a Tesla with only prototype Semis and a factory under construction be valued at? About $5 BB actually sounds quite right, maybe even undervalued depending on cultist zealotry and SEC enforcement levels.

Has Nikola prototypes that can actually drive by now? From a quick look, there seems to be suspiciously little mention of that, despite there being a clear motivation for them to widely promote that after the video scandal broke last year?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#176

Post by yup00 »

dasudasu wrote: post #156
yup00 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an article, over a year ago now, that said the GM deal was nothing but upside for GM They got cash from Nikola whether they ended up manufacturing anything for them or not, and had to put up nothing up front.

Reputational hit from propping up literal fraud. Opportunity cost from not partnering with better companies in the space.

GM’s reputation is trash with anyone but patriotic “GM/Chevy” Americans already.

So long as the public are willing to believe they’re essential, they’ll remain too big to fail and don’t need to worry about their reputation.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#177

Post by frockington1 »

tenpies wrote: post #164
zippergz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the number of companies (from Tesla to Chevrolet) with large volumes actual EVs sold and on the road, I don't see how Nikola has a head start?

Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks. How much would a Tesla with only prototype Semis and a factory under construction be valued at? About $5 BB actually sounds quite right, maybe even undervalued depending on cultist zealotry and SEC enforcement levels.

Ford is the obvious leader for electric trucks, what does Nikola have that For doesn't?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#178

Post by robohoe »

pbreit wrote: post #159
_game_of_life wrote: post #48

This should not be surprising to anyone. Arstechnica has followed Nikola's terrible and obvious fraud(s) for years now: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/nikola-admits-to-making... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/12/nikola-stock-craters-af... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/nikola-patented-a-stole... And many more... The speculation around this stock has been insane for many years now: https://arstechnica.c…

Still a $5b company: https://www.google.com/finance/quote/NKLA:NASDAQ

Which is surprising....do they even have a car in the works?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#179

Post by _game_of_life »

yup00 wrote: post #155
_game_of_life wrote: post #48

This should not be surprising to anyone. Arstechnica has followed Nikola's terrible and obvious fraud(s) for years now: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/nikola-admits-to-making... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/12/nikola-stock-craters-af... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/nikola-patented-a-stole... And many more... The speculation around this stock has been insane for many years now: https://arstechnica.c…

Financial markets are not coupled to real economics anymore. They’re coupled to speculative gamesmanship. Whoever can generate statistics to captivate the masses who do not understand them, via press releases, and media blitzes. That sounds cynical, but I “hob nob” with people invited to Davos, and run depts at Ivy League schools. Behind closed doors these are the conversations I’ve been privy too. How to captivate t…

I don't know about mirror neurons personally, but the cult-like behaviour, evangelism, and buzz words in business has been easily observable for decades.

Now you go into subreddits like /r/superstonk, bitcoin, GME, Dogecoin, etc. And the cultish religiosity is palpable in these echo chambers too.

So I'm not really surprised by this, if what you've shared is true.

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