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Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#161

Post by virgilp »

_c3bx wrote: post #141
H8crilA wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just "Copying Tesla" is not a fraud by a mile, the whole point of capitalism is that enterprises compete by offering alternative solutions[1]. It is actually surprising it took so long for someone to copy the "electric car company with Tesla characteristics", given the insanely attractive cost of equity capital that Tesla is enjoying. Matt Levine wrote a section on this, about how Elon said good-bye to earnings calls…

Whatever you think of them, the Tesla fanboys have been proven more right then wrong and the likes of Matt Levine (and Bloomberg) are just bitter at this point. A lot of EV startups like NKLA are going to come and go but very few if any will be able to replicate Teslas success in the long term. Retail investors are not always stupid, many of the same Tesla investors have been shorting NKLA since it came on via a spac…

> Retail investors are not always stupid,

Matt Levine wrote an article mocking them for buying Hertz stock, then a bit later another one saying "wait no that was actually a very smart thing".

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#162

Post by ineedasername »

itsoktocry wrote: post #137
api wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the name screams transparent fraud, a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Weren't there VCs who put money into this? What were they thinking? Were they being amoral and hoping to ride this pump and dump or did they actually buy into this shit?

> a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. > What were they thinking? Were they being amoral and hoping to ride this pump and dump or did they actually buy into this shit? Fundamentally, what have they done that's so evil compared to, say, the multitu…

I don't think "Other companies have made fraudulent claims too" is a valid defense. The federal government choosing to go after a company that has delivered on less of its claims seems reasonable given limited resources to prosecute this sort of thing.

Especially as Tesla has done a great job of going right up to the border on misleading claims, and even stepped its toes over the line a bit, but not in a way that would be as easy to prosecute as the more blatant Nikola.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#164

Post by tenpies »

zippergz wrote: post #56
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think it’s overvalued, but the company distanced itself from the criminal founder long ago. The company also has about 3/4 of a billion dollars in the bank. It’s basically an extremely well funded startup with a bit of a head start on the EV market at this point.

With the number of companies (from Tesla to Chevrolet) with large volumes actual EVs sold and on the road, I don't see how Nikola has a head start?

Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks.

How much would a Tesla with only prototype Semis and a factory under construction be valued at? About $5 BB actually sounds quite right, maybe even undervalued depending on cultist zealotry and SEC enforcement levels.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#165

Post by nostrademons »

chasebank wrote: post #30
dreyfan wrote: post #2

And yet NKLA still has a $5B market cap despite the entire company being 100% fraud. Amazing. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/nkla

Older I get, more I realize the market is just a game of human psychology. Stocks, housing, crypto, etc. History says speculative 'investing' ends poorly but this time, who knows? If you happen to have the answer, I'm all ears.

"History says speculative 'investing' ends poorly but this time, who knows?"

It'll still end poorly, but if you choose & time trades correctly it'll end poorly for other people. Choosing and timing your trades is left as an exercise for the reader.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#167

Post by papito »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #116
api wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the name screams transparent fraud, a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Weren't there VCs who put money into this? What were they thinking? Were they being amoral and hoping to ride this pump and dump or did they actually buy into this shit?

> Weren't there VCs who put money into this? Definitely, but worse than that, real companies that really should have known better. GM associated themselves. For what reason I can’t figure out. It must have been high up because the GM engineers I know all knew it was a 100% scam. It’s like anything else that confuses me in business. Some idiot made a mistake, sure, but then their boss approved that, and all the other…

Welcome to broken Capitalism, when the incentives are ass-backwards. Juice quarterly returns, give yourself a massive tax-lite bonus, and walk away from ruins. Or better yet, get in on a con or a pyramid scheme. What's the worst that can happen? Jail? Please.

It's just, this time the pyramid collapsed faster than it should have. Due diligence is for losers.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#169

Post by gonehome »

anyfactor wrote: post #138
_game_of_life wrote: post #48

This should not be surprising to anyone. Arstechnica has followed Nikola's terrible and obvious fraud(s) for years now: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/nikola-admits-to-making... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/12/nikola-stock-craters-af... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/nikola-patented-a-stole... And many more... The speculation around this stock has been insane for many years now: https://arstechnica.c…

I browse through a lot of niche investing social media groups. One of the more liked posts on a Nikola investment group was, "If "they" cared about the future, the earth and the renewable energy issue, they would let whatever Trevor did slide." Surprisingly, I saw similar posts about Musk on the Thailand rescuer tweet and the price too high tweet. You are not betting against the fundamentals or the realities of the s…

Something can be true in one case and not true in another.

Nikola looked like fraud from the start (no Silicon Valley funds invested iirc - money came from Detroit).

Elon Musk is obviously different.

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