Live data from Hacker News

How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real

quantamagazine.org

351–356 of 356 posts

Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real

#351
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Just to be clear, the part you are wrong about is this: > If you only have a single member of the pair, then you will see the same interference pattern in a double slit experiment than with a not-entangled particle. This bit: > It doesn't matter if the other particle has collided with a brick, went thru a double slit experiment, went thru a bad double slit experiment, or is flying to Andromeda. is correct. Also…

From the last part of 4.2 > Here's how it works. We send a pair of EPR photons through a pair of two-slit apparati each of which has a polarization rotator on one of the slits. On one side of the apparatus (side A) we install a polarization filter which filters out interference on that side and makes it visible. We can filter out interference on the other side (side B) of the apparatus as follows: on side A we keep a…

You should read this:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/179348/double-do...

Pay particular attention to item 3 under "scenario 2" in the first answer.

Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what OP means is, spookiness comes out of the fact that one particle that can be separated by huge distance from another particle, and both particles being in superposition of states, observing one particle can affect the state of another. It is not about state, that you do not know, but state that is not yet there. When one particle's state decomposes from superposition of states to a single state, given the…

Yes but I think what you both are missing is that this example is meant for laypeople. Nobody has ever claimed that this is literally entanglement and I can say from first-hand experience that it's useful to bridge the gap to actually understanding entanglement.

Well, I am layman regarding in general, particularly physics. I get what you are saying, but the analogy lose the point of what makes entanglement nonsensical and spooky for anybody, layman or not.

As I said before, if they had an analogy of balls which does not have a color and when you see one ball and it gets color and the other ball which was in contact with it become colored magically too, it would be fine. I am ranting and I am sure educators can come up with better analogy.

The point is, spookiness is important for understanding the significance of why this is big deal at all and some people think that should not get lost in translation.

Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just realized you linked to an article by Nick Bostrom, apparently the same guy who posits the Fable of the Dragon Tyrant. Seems in general to hold opinions in contradiction with mine.

The simulation argument is definitely true, in the sense that one of the outcomes Bostrom describes must be true. I don't think he takes a position on which outcome is true, so I'm not sure what there is to disagree with there. As for aging and life extension, I honestly don't understand how anyone could reasonably think we shouldn't stop or reverse aging.

Those are some bold claims that not even Bostrom makes. Irregardless, I would take one but for a fool for assertions without the backing of evidence: of which a hypothetical thought-experiment is not.

I can certainly comprehend why one would wish to become an immortal being incapable of death. But I just want to be human. Sure you can live forever, but at what cost? A fear for sunlight, garlic, and crosses? For me, "Death is very likely the single best invention of Life."

Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real

#354
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the last part of 4.2 > Here's how it works. We send a pair of EPR photons through a pair of two-slit apparati each of which has a polarization rotator on one of the slits. On one side of the apparatus (side A) we install a polarization filter which filters out interference on that side and makes it visible. We can filter out interference on the other side (side B) of the apparatus as follows: on side A we keep a…

You should read this: https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/179348/double-do... Pay particular attention to item 3 under "scenario 2" in the first answer.

[Sorry for the looooong delay. I missed your reply last week and I just saw it yesterday night.]

Now I'm confused. I had to read the link carefully and try to translate the experiment with polarizer to the experiment with the double slit.

I'm still not sure, but an important point is that in a usual double slit experiment there is a single slit before that acts like a collimator and ensure the photons have no preference for each slit. Let's suppose you see isolated in lab B:

* If you add the collimator, then all effect of entanglement are destroyed and you see the usual interference pattern.

* If you don't add the collimator, you have and ensemble of particles that go to each slit, and cause no interference pattern. It's not necessary to add a polarization rotator to one of them.

* If the experiments are far away, ¿does it count as an implicit single slit collimator? I'm confused here. I'd prefer a version with only polarization or other property that is not mixed with the setup of the experiment.

As I'd said before, I'm now confused.

Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real

#355
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read this: https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/179348/double-do... Pay particular attention to item 3 under "scenario 2" in the first answer.

[Sorry for the looooong delay. I missed your reply last week and I just saw it yesterday night.] Now I'm confused. I had to read the link carefully and try to translate the experiment with polarizer to the experiment with the double slit. I'm still not sure, but an important point is that in a usual double slit experiment there is a single slit before that acts like a collimator and ensure the photons have no prefere…

Yeah, it's confusing. I should probably write a new paper just on this topic because there isn't really a good explanation anywhere.

> translate the experiment with polarizer to the experiment with the double slit

Best is not to get too hung up on the physical details. What matters is that a stream of particles can get separated along two separate paths and brought back together, and this can produce an interference pattern. The particular degree of freedom along with the separation takes place (position, polarization, spin, whatever), or the details of how they are split and brought back together (two-slit, half-silvered mirrors, Stern-Gehrlach apparatus, whatever) is mostly irrelevant. What matters is:

1. When unentangled particles are sent through one of these split-combine setups they produce an interference pattern.

2. When you "measure" the degree of freedom along which the particles are split in one of these split-combine setups, the interference pattern disappears and is replaced by a non-interference pattern. (This is just basic quantum mechanics 101.)

3. When you send entangled particles through a split-combine setup what you get is a non-interference pattern, exactly the same as the one you get when you "measure" an unentangled particle. But...

4. If you go through a rather elaborate process (see below) you can separate the entangled particles into two groups, each of which exhibits an interference pattern, and these two interference patterns will add up to make a non-interference pattern. (Even more interesting, there is more than one way that you can do this separation, each of which will produce a different pair of interference patterns, but any given pair will add up to the same non-interference pattern.)

The "elaborate process" involves making measurements on the complimentary observable for one member of each entangled pair, and classifying the other member of the pair into one of two groups based on the outcome of that measurement. This is where the physical details get really complicated for anything other than polarization, where the complimentary observable is just polarization along an axis rotated by 45 degrees to the original.

Note also that the reason that #3 above is true is that measurement and entanglement are actually the same physical phenomenon. The mathematical description of an entangled particle and a "measured" particle is exactly the same.

Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real

#356
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Sorry for the looooong delay. I missed your reply last week and I just saw it yesterday night.] Now I'm confused. I had to read the link carefully and try to translate the experiment with polarizer to the experiment with the double slit. I'm still not sure, but an important point is that in a usual double slit experiment there is a single slit before that acts like a collimator and ensure the photons have no prefere…

Yeah, it's confusing. I should probably write a new paper just on this topic because there isn't really a good explanation anywhere. > translate the experiment with polarizer to the experiment with the double slit Best is not to get too hung up on the physical details. What matters is that a stream of particles can get separated along two separate paths and brought back together, and this can produce an interference…

> 1. When unentangled particles are sent through one of these split-combine setups they produce an interference pattern.

It depends on how you prepare the particle beam. With a laser or passing first though a single (centered) slit, you get a beam of pure state particles that cause interference.

If you use other method, you can get an ensemble that doesn't produce interference.

About the use of the polarizer at 45°, I'm still not convinced. I have to write it carefully, but now I'm super busy [1]. I hope to take some time to write it next month.

Anyway, it would be nice to replace the double slit experiment with another experiment, like a beam splitter. It's difficult to remember what the two slits and the screens do to my brackets. (I think I know now, but I must write that carefully.)

[1] I only have time for a few online rants :) .

Post reply on HN