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Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

cnbc.com

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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#81

Post by api »

dreyfan wrote: post #2

And yet NKLA still has a $5B market cap despite the entire company being 100% fraud. Amazing. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/nkla

https://coinmarketcap.com

Tether, either a scam or a criminal money laundering enterprise (or both), has a market cap of over $50B. DOGE, a joke based on an old meme of a Shiba Inu, has a market cap of over $1B.

Not only is the real Tesla's market cap not irrational, at this point I'd say any company that actually has anything of value should be valued in the hundreds of billions. The pizza place around the corner should be at least $100B in that they actually make something.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#82

Post by FredPret »

clipradiowallet wrote: post #72
chasebank wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Older I get, more I realize the market is just a game of human psychology. Stocks, housing, crypto, etc. History says speculative 'investing' ends poorly but this time, who knows? If you happen to have the answer, I'm all ears.

> History says speculative 'investing' ends poorly If it ends poorly for someone(s), then it ends fabulously for someone(s) else. The same could be said for gambling... the lure of easy money is difficult for people to resist.

It’s not zero sum though

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#83

Post by extrememacaroni »

chasebank wrote: post #30
dreyfan wrote: post #2

And yet NKLA still has a $5B market cap despite the entire company being 100% fraud. Amazing. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/nkla

Older I get, more I realize the market is just a game of human psychology. Stocks, housing, crypto, etc. History says speculative 'investing' ends poorly but this time, who knows? If you happen to have the answer, I'm all ears.

It's a thing created by humans, used by humans, who assign value to tickers, where everyone tries to win and some have to lose for others to win.

It can only be a game of cat psychology.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#84

Post by ethbr0 »

zippergz wrote: post #56
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think it’s overvalued, but the company distanced itself from the criminal founder long ago. The company also has about 3/4 of a billion dollars in the bank. It’s basically an extremely well funded startup with a bit of a head start on the EV market at this point.

With the number of companies (from Tesla to Chevrolet) with large volumes actual EVs sold and on the road, I don't see how Nikola has a head start?

Popular opinion around EV tech is approaching PowerPC-era Mac apologists.

"Yes, it's less performant, but it has {insert special, unmeasurable and/or unproven magic here}."

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#85

Post by [deleted] »

imglorp wrote: post #28
raesene9 wrote: post #19

Interesting how even after this was announced, their market cap is over $5b ( https://www.google.com/finance/quote/NKLA:NASDAQ ) in the same ballpark as established car companies like Mazda ( https://www.google.com/finance/quote/MZDAF:OTCMKTS )

What? How? Is there any potential upside at all, unless it's another pump and dump or short squeeze game?

[deleted]

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#86

Post by kolbe »

chasebank wrote: post #53
shawnz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History says speculative 'investing' ends poorly Does it? If you look past the biggest scams and bubbles, I think most research shows that a moderate amount of speculation actually decreases volatility and makes market manipulation more difficult. Speculators after all are the ones who correct the prices of assets which are being wrongly valued.

Copy / paste from elsewhere but here's a recent list of speculative investing bubbles and their outcomes: The Japanese Nikkei is still down 40% from 1989. That was 31 years ago. The Shanghai Composite index is down 45% from 2007. That was 13 years ago. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng Index is down 10% from the peak in 2007. The German DAX is a “total return” index that includes dividends. So it cannot be compared to the other…

For what it’s worth, you cannot really compare non-total return indexes with one another either. You’re assuming they have had the same dividend yield during the comparison period, which isn’t a reasonable assumption. In reality, only total return indexes can be relied on for accurate information.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#87

Post by ethbr0 »

pinewurst wrote: post #58
snarkypixel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The father of value investing, Benjamin Graham, explained this concept by saying that in the short run, the market is like a voting machine--tallying up which firms are popular and unpopular. But in the long run, the market is like a weighing machine--assessing the substance of a company." Boring answer, but in the long-term, great businesses go up, whereas crappy businesses go bankrupt.

I think this was much more true in the long ago era of regulation, (mostly) autarky, and limited market info/trading barriers. I've looked at "Security Analysis" and it's very much a historical piece - railroads and (practically) buggy whips. Things change relatively faster these days. Yesterday, Kodak was the bluest of chips; today, pretty much a joke. Heck, look at Buffett in the last decade - I'll bet he fully Gra…

In times of plenty, where money flows and pools drives stock prices.

In times of poverty, fundamentals drive stock prices.

We've been in a time of plenty for a historically abnormally long period.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#88

Post by the-dude »

tankenmate wrote: post #66
eplanit wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered why there is a superfluous comma in the title.

There isn't a superfluous comma, the two commas are use to delineate the relative clause "founder of electric carmaker Nikola".

There was a superfluous comma.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#89

Post by sixQuarks »

misiti3780 wrote: post #46
rwmj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming that Tesla vehicles are fraudulent and only drive when rolling down hills?

The number of Tesla haters on HN is bizarre.

You have to realize there are a LOT of people on here who fail to launch successful startups. Lots of projecting and sour grapes.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#90

Post by ethbr0 »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #44
snarkypixel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The father of value investing, Benjamin Graham, explained this concept by saying that in the short run, the market is like a voting machine--tallying up which firms are popular and unpopular. But in the long run, the market is like a weighing machine--assessing the substance of a company." Boring answer, but in the long-term, great businesses go up, whereas crappy businesses go bankrupt.

They used to. In the era of quantitative easing, governments just pump money into any failing major player. edit: I see I rustled some jimmies. Feel free to have a look yourself at "modern capitalism". https://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbail...

Pumping money into the market in general has the same effect.

Especially if chosen inflation measures conveniently exclude capital areas money would accumulate (stocks & property).

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