The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil • Hacker News Board

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#21

Post by SwiftyBug » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

MandieD wrote: post #10

What we in the EU actually can do: campaign for a ban on imports of Brazilian beef as long as they’re allowing the destruction of their rainforests. The cheaper beer I see at the discount grocery stores is often from Brazil, so this isn’t merely symbolic.

> The cheaper beer I see at the discount grocery stores is often from Brazil

I assume you meant beef instead of beer. While brazilian beef is the cheapest option in the EU, it is increasingly expensive in Brazil. Brazilians are starting to have to wait in line for the donation of the leftover bones by butcher shops[1].

[1]https://g1.globo.com/mt/mato-grosso/noticia/2021/07/17/acoug...

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#22

Post by HelloMcFly » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

Anymore, my only comfort is existential: we won't wipe out all life on earth, so maybe there will be beautiful ecosystems that re-emerge in a few million years after we've collapsed this current one entirely. Everything about what's happening the natural world is deeply distressing and depressing, but as it seems to be a mostly foregone conclusion scaling out my view of "life" has helped me cope.

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#23

Post by tluyben2 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #20

Dumblydorr wrote: post #2

This is so short-sighted and ignorant, it's hard to even read about. Brazilians should cherish their rainforest, legacy of millions of years of evolution, with wondrous biodiversity and an amazing carbon sink the planet desperately needs. Instead, they're chopping and burning this vital carbon store to make room for beef production. This is so short sighted it's painful. We know beef has to be massively ramped down,…

If middle ages Brazilians knew how the Europeans were deforesting Europe they'd have probably said the same thing.

Sure, but is that a good argument? We used to make mistakes because we did not know better (for a long time anyway) so now, even though we do know better, we can let everyone make the same mistakes? Out of some weird sense of avoiding time-travelling hypocrisy? How far does that go?

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#24

Post by tluyben2 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #15

stanmancan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hard problem here is that you’re right; but who are we to tell them they can’t do the same things that North America and Europe did to survive and prosper? We have released ungodly amounts of green house gasses and clear cut millions and millions of acres to build our cities and factories. Who are we to finger point any day “yeah we did it and life is great but you can’t because we beat you to the punch and did i…

I guess we know more about ecology and climate change in 2021 than in the 1600s? That's why.

Exactly. It is not a good argument 'we used to do the same'. We did that because we were ignorant of the consequences. So we can pay brasil to stop it instead of send in the army, but letting them do it because we used to is just weird.

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#25

Post by singularity2001 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

ggpsv wrote: post #9

Dumblydorr wrote: post #2

This is so short-sighted and ignorant, it's hard to even read about. Brazilians should cherish their rainforest, legacy of millions of years of evolution, with wondrous biodiversity and an amazing carbon sink the planet desperately needs. Instead, they're chopping and burning this vital carbon store to make room for beef production. This is so short sighted it's painful. We know beef has to be massively ramped down,…

While I agree that losing the Amazon, and all of its biological and human diversity is a catastrophe, I don't agree with this sort of finger pointing. The same argument can be said of most, if not all, of the western countries whose primary ecosystems have gone extinct by mostly the same reasons. How come then that when the developing nations in the global south do so, they're short-sighted and ignorant? Yes, Brazil…

I often scold local loggers when I encounter them and got the reply: If you want forest, move to Brazil.

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#26

Post by HelloMcFly » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

datavirtue wrote: post #17

If you ever get outside you will find that trees not only clean the air but they cool the earth tremendously. On a 90°F (and humid as hell) day here in Ohio I can literally ride my bike through a continuous tunnel of trees that block the sun light from our extensive trail here in Cincinnati. Without those trees the trail would be unusable. This is not hyperbole. Earth getting hot? Plant trees.

I've probably personally planted upwards of 50 trees with volunteer organizations. I love trees more than pretty much anything else. I'm starting to get scared that we're just not going to have the precipitation required to sustain the forest of today. How many of those trees that I planted in Georgia will even survive 30 years? I hope all of them, I'm increasingly pessimistic.

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#27

Post by jefurii » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

ggpsv wrote: post #9

Dumblydorr wrote: post #2

This is so short-sighted and ignorant, it's hard to even read about. Brazilians should cherish their rainforest, legacy of millions of years of evolution, with wondrous biodiversity and an amazing carbon sink the planet desperately needs. Instead, they're chopping and burning this vital carbon store to make room for beef production. This is so short sighted it's painful. We know beef has to be massively ramped down,…

While I agree that losing the Amazon, and all of its biological and human diversity is a catastrophe, I don't agree with this sort of finger pointing. The same argument can be said of most, if not all, of the western countries whose primary ecosystems have gone extinct by mostly the same reasons. How come then that when the developing nations in the global south do so, they're short-sighted and ignorant? Yes, Brazil…

You're both right.

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#28

Post by em500 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

Dumblydorr wrote: post #2

This is so short-sighted and ignorant, it's hard to even read about. Brazilians should cherish their rainforest, legacy of millions of years of evolution, with wondrous biodiversity and an amazing carbon sink the planet desperately needs. Instead, they're chopping and burning this vital carbon store to make room for beef production. This is so short sighted it's painful. We know beef has to be massively ramped down,…

> This is so short-sighted and ignorant, it's hard to even read about. Brazilians should cherish their rainforest, legacy of millions of years of evolution, with wondrous biodiversity and an amazing carbon sink the planet desperately needs.

This sounds to me like a bit like telling Americans that they should cherish their planet and stop driving and flying all the time. We all know that that would help a lot, but (1) it dramatically reduces comfort and QoL in the short to medium term with no tangible benefits for the individual and (2) it only works if almost everyone else does it as well.

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#29

Post by fredros » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

stanmancan wrote: post #13

Dumblydorr wrote: post #2

This is so short-sighted and ignorant, it's hard to even read about. Brazilians should cherish their rainforest, legacy of millions of years of evolution, with wondrous biodiversity and an amazing carbon sink the planet desperately needs. Instead, they're chopping and burning this vital carbon store to make room for beef production. This is so short sighted it's painful. We know beef has to be massively ramped down,…

The hard problem here is that you’re right; but who are we to tell them they can’t do the same things that North America and Europe did to survive and prosper? We have released ungodly amounts of green house gasses and clear cut millions and millions of acres to build our cities and factories. Who are we to finger point any day “yeah we did it and life is great but you can’t because we beat you to the punch and did i…

In France the forest covers a bigger part of the territory than before the industrial revolution. I think it’s the case in several western countries.

Re: The Amazon Rainforest Is Fast Approaching a Point of No Return in Brazil

#30

Post by bigodbiel » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

ggpsv wrote: post #9

Dumblydorr wrote: post #2

This is so short-sighted and ignorant, it's hard to even read about. Brazilians should cherish their rainforest, legacy of millions of years of evolution, with wondrous biodiversity and an amazing carbon sink the planet desperately needs. Instead, they're chopping and burning this vital carbon store to make room for beef production. This is so short sighted it's painful. We know beef has to be massively ramped down,…

While I agree that losing the Amazon, and all of its biological and human diversity is a catastrophe, I don't agree with this sort of finger pointing. The same argument can be said of most, if not all, of the western countries whose primary ecosystems have gone extinct by mostly the same reasons. How come then that when the developing nations in the global south do so, they're short-sighted and ignorant? Yes, Brazil…

The same argument is true towards China. Everyone blames them for their carbon footprint, but in the end who is buying and who is profiting from it? The answer is clear. And let’s not even get started with “recycling”!