Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#121

Post by keanebean86 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #106

I'd like to note, donning my #2 at amzn hat again, that when the idea for affiliate sales originally came up, we certainly did imagine people creating pages with lists like "best bikes for under $500". However, I feel fairly confident in saying that nobody involved in that in the 95-96 timeframe was imagining that such pages would be created by anyone other than actual enthusiasts (probably a reflection of the state…

Are those sites generated by bots now? They always seem to just be the top x results if you search on Amazon directly.

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#122

Post by antihero » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

baggy_trough wrote: post #114

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #106

I'd like to note, donning my #2 at amzn hat again, that when the idea for affiliate sales originally came up, we certainly did imagine people creating pages with lists like "best bikes for under $500". However, I feel fairly confident in saying that nobody involved in that in the 95-96 timeframe was imagining that such pages would be created by anyone other than actual enthusiasts (probably a reflection of the state…

An actual "best X for 202X" page is extremely useful; the problem is that there are no search signals to distinguish it from a trivially created spam mockery.

There's consumer advocate sites like https://www.which.co.uk/ that are pretty cool. I'd be interesting in knowing other trustable sources, mind.

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#123

Post by only_as_i_fall » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

I think the fundamental problem is that any sufficiently influential system which provides consumer information on products or services becomes an obvious target for those sellers and service providers to try and game.

I think there are basically only 2 ways around this

1) a consumer reports type model were consumers must trust a central authority to be inviolable.

2) legislation that harshly punishes companies who try to influence their own reviews. These would likely be ineffective unless they were incredibly stringent.

Is there a more reasonable model that can avoid being gamed though? I feel like more and more I have to rely on word of mouth about products which isn't great for different reasons.

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#124

Post by efleurine » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

People need to to become more informed themselves instead of being ready to click through the first line of result.

May be we need more informed people and less SMARTphones.

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#125

Post by burnt_toast » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #66

iamben wrote: post #63

We're going to end up going back to community sites. Reddit is obviously the good example here, but you can guarantee if you find a 'racing bike' forum (or whatever), take the time to join up, search, ask - someone with a passion for it will give you a great, well researched list because they love it and take pride from knowing . Exactly the same as when I ask my friend who's passionate about wine for his recommendat…

I want you to be right but the GME and AMC nonsense doesn’t instill a lot of confidence that Reddit isn’t being gamed already by automated accounts. I’ve had my own comment altered a little and regurgitated by a bot before, which was extremely creepy. But you are right that the signal to noise is at least better on Reddit.

The bots can definitely be frustrating.

I like to stick to smaller subreddits as they tend to be more authentic. Usually anything under 100K subscribers (with exceptions) can be really enjoyable to lurk + a great source of info.

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#126

Post by tomrod » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

seoaeu wrote: post #84

flenserboy wrote: post #49

Google broke itself over a decade ago when they began giving you results either that their algorithms assumed you wanted or that they wanted you to have , period. Verbatim search hardly produces anything useful anymore, either. Search has been coopted, making the prime thing (past general connectivity) that made the internet so useful now all but worthless.

It is always weird to me that people think the quality of Google results compared to the past are a deliberate choice by Google, and not the consequence of an adversarial process where marketers spend billions of dollars trying to distort the rankings

Regardless of actor causing the issue, Google is the party that serves the search results and thus are responsible for what they display.

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#127

Post by hatsunearu » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

I often search with "reddit" at the end of queries like this to get some good opinions. I'm sure a lot of you know this already though, because "[question] reddit" shows up as recommended search all the time.

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#128

Post by robertlagrant » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #122

baggy_trough wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An actual "best X for 202X" page is extremely useful; the problem is that there are no search signals to distinguish it from a trivially created spam mockery.

There's consumer advocate sites like https://www.which.co.uk/ that are pretty cool. I'd be interesting in knowing other trustable sources, mind.

I came here to say this. Embedding trusted sources like that [0] would a) help fund such useful organisations and b) help drown out link farms.

[0] in fact I think in Germany there is a state-sponsered impartial review body for consumer products.

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#129

Post by nacs » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

typon wrote: post #111

flenserboy wrote: post #49

Google broke itself over a decade ago when they began giving you results either that their algorithms assumed you wanted or that they wanted you to have , period. Verbatim search hardly produces anything useful anymore, either. Search has been coopted, making the prime thing (past general connectivity) that made the internet so useful now all but worthless.

90% of my searches for stuff like "best bike to buy under $500" go something like: "best bike to buy for under $500 site:reddit.com"

I do similar things for "real" reviews.

But it's just a matter of time before the astroturfers start marketing more effectively via Reddit for SEO purposes.

Re: Amazon has ruined search and Google is in on it

#130

Post by makeitdouble » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

seoaeu wrote: post #84

flenserboy wrote: post #49

Google broke itself over a decade ago when they began giving you results either that their algorithms assumed you wanted or that they wanted you to have , period. Verbatim search hardly produces anything useful anymore, either. Search has been coopted, making the prime thing (past general connectivity) that made the internet so useful now all but worthless.

It is always weird to me that people think the quality of Google results compared to the past are a deliberate choice by Google, and not the consequence of an adversarial process where marketers spend billions of dollars trying to distort the rankings

Isn't the fuzzying of the query and expansion of the results, including prioritizing "natural language" querying a deliberate UX choice ? I don't get what the marketers have to do with that part ?