Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#241

Post by jdunlop » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 11:44 AM UTC

naner wrote: post #149

sgentle wrote: post #49

I think there's an important lesson here that you can take home right now: If your primary email is an @gmail.com address, you have your head firmly in the lion's mouth. You can backup your data. You can have fallback tools and services. You cannot backup your identity. And if that identity is controlled by Google, you are tying your online existence for the duration to the foibles of a publically traded company with…

This is probably a little hyperbolic. I have a gmail address and I don't expect it to disappear. If it does, however, I will still survive (after going through some temporary pain). I feel like you're telling me I shouldn't use a credit card because someone could steal my identity. Or that I shouldn't use closed-source software because my "freedom" is in jeopardy.

It's not about cost, it's about being tied a large weight that could be thrown overboard at any moment. I went with a gmail account back in 2004 because I didn't want to be tied to my ISP. Now, all my services (ALL!) use my gmail account as a means of resetting my password. If they decide to take away my account, I will be completely screwed.

What to do...what they need is the ability to have 2 email addresses for all services, so if I get cut from one, I'll just sign up for the other.

Seriously, I don't even care about all the emails in my inbox, I will go on if I loose my 3G database, I care more about my identity.

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#242

Post by jdunlop » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 1:00 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #127

palish wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot "And that's an immoral way to operate. As individuals, we should try very hard to discourage that mentality. But that's the way the world operates at this time." Personally, I've given up hope that the world will ever be different. But if there is any hope, it will take the form of: "We will no longer tolerate your impersonal policies and rationalizations". So we should try to speak out against it. But yea…

The problem is, if Google had to provide real support, would they be able to offer stuff for free¹? Because if not, the alternative is shutting down these services, which is bad for those of us who bother to backup their emails and have their own domains. Personally, I feel this is a simple matter of personal responsibility. It's free, so you can't expect support. If you're not okay with that, pay someone and ask the…

You know, they could also not delete our accounts without giving us the ability to adjust what they don't like. This could all be automated, and wouldn't require much if any human involvement.

But you know, that would be too obvious.

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#243

Post by guard-of-terra » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 1:21 PM UTC

rjd wrote: post #124

guard-of-terra wrote: post #94

I wonder why google lets that happen. They don't have blog monitoring or something? Or are they too arrogant to fix a problem even when it's clearly there (for one person, anyway). Or is it that you just can't find the one person responsible and empowered with the ability to fix? Everyone have bugs (another use for blog monitoring), but this one seems pretty loud. Same for facebook.

Its not they let it happen, its the fact that it designed to happen. These companies use highly automated services, if the approach feels inhumane then you are noticing the fact that it is inhumane. Its not a malicious act for these companies to do this, its a by product of a set up circumstances that are designed to trigger a response to catch people abusing the product. Naturally a person from time to time will tri…

That's what having a monopoly doing to them.

If the market would be more competitive (cows could walk away en masse), surely they would treat cows as humans.

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#244

Post by Orbitrix » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 1:46 PM UTC

cynope wrote: post #202

ptman wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical objects can only be in one place at a time. Data on the other hand can be backed up while it is still being used by the service. And Google collects information about how to do this for their services in one place: the Data Liberation Front http://www.dataliberation.org/

It is not realistic to expect all users to continually make backups of all their Google services. It is however realistic for Google to solve this by putting a violating account in a "read-only" mode, where you are able to export all you data and not do anything else.

Yes it is realistic to expect all users to continually make backups of their Google services. Maybe google just hasnt made it easy enough yet... but that is what the goal should be.

Allowed access to banned accounts in "Read-only" mode is ripe for abuse by spammers and phishers who could benefit from still being able to access information in the violating accounts. Its the wrong kind of solution to a problem that really comes down to personal responsibility.

I think most people know deep down the responsible thing to do is have backups of all their important data... the cloud is just making people lazy. And providing a "read-only" access to a banned account will only make people lazier and more apathetic about it. "oh.. no worries.. Googles got my back" But what happens when Google is hacked, or suffers a natural disaster, or other catastrophic failure? It only serves to make the problem worse. Losing your data, to even a wrongfully banned account, is nobody's fault but your own.

There so many more reasons to backup your data before something bad happens, not after.... thats what we should be promoting

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#245

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 1:47 PM UTC

a_m0d wrote: post #167

darklajid wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the .name TLD? I own (for now.. I'm not sure if that can be disputed if more people with my rather rare last name apply) lastname.name So - you can reach me, if I finally finish my migration and stop being a lazy bastard, at firstname@lastname.name - which is rather good imo. Sure, I've got other legacy addresses, but this could be a viable alternative to a gmail _identity_.

There is also the .me TLD - not sure if it has the same intentions as .name, but it is less used so more widely available. I own my lastname.me domain, and so I can (if I ever set it up properly) send mail to firstname@lastname.me, which is slightly shorter but works just as well.

[deleted]

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#246

Post by cynope » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 2:45 PM UTC

Orbitrix wrote: post #244

cynope wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not realistic to expect all users to continually make backups of all their Google services. It is however realistic for Google to solve this by putting a violating account in a "read-only" mode, where you are able to export all you data and not do anything else.

Yes it is realistic to expect all users to continually make backups of their Google services. Maybe google just hasnt made it easy enough yet... but that is what the goal should be. Allowed access to banned accounts in "Read-only" mode is ripe for abuse by spammers and phishers who could benefit from still being able to access information in the violating accounts. Its the wrong kind of solution to a problem that rea…

Any improvements in exporting data from a Google Account that will make a daily backup actually doable are welcome. But Google should not place all responsibility in the hands of the users, since this inevitable will result in bad user experiences and therefore bad publicity.

Regarding spammers and phishers, these are users violating the law and they of course have no legitimate claims to their account data.

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#247

Post by nikhilgk » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 2:53 PM UTC

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #174

ajays wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. A bunch of Google fanboys voting me down for stating something rational, but that just happens to be anti-Google. I just started using G+ (mainly because I'd like there to be a strong competitor to FB), but Google's antics give me cause for concern. I'd hate to get "hacked" some day and have Google completely wipe out every bit I have with them.

You can download your data from Google anytime: http://www.google.com/takeout/ When you sign-up for a Google account, there's a little something called a Terms of Service you agree to. You violate them? You sacrifice all rights to any data you may or may not have on their services. That's something every Google user agrees to from day one. If you don't like that punishment, you shouldn't have signed up.

This is the more significant source of information for moving data out of Google products: http://www.dataliberation.org/

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#248

Post by dpacmittal » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 6:04 PM UTC

kiddsock wrote: post #139

Matt_Cutts wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked to the person with this complaint, then looked into it myself. The account was suspended for a violation of our Terms of Service. After digging into the situation, my personal opinion is that Google took appropriate action. I'm sorry that I can't go into more detail.

I am sorry to hear that. I am just wondering why this is on HackerNews. But so be it. Did something happen to @thomasmonopoly account that he is not aware of? I got banned from Adsense just over a Year ago and I thought about making Noise. BUT I wanted to work WITH Adsense and Google. Why Burn Bridges? So I tried to use the proper channels. But very disappointing that I was Ignored the whole time. All I do/did was ma…

I've been victim of sane. Although, I hadn't earned much, but the fact that Google banned me without my mistake, still bother me. I was just getting few clicks a day and some retard user used some script which made automated clicks on my ads 10,000 times. I noticed this and immediately reported the activity to Adsense, and what do I know... they ban me.. for being freaking honest. And just like this guy, none of my screamings and rantings were heard.

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#249

Post by blama » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 6:44 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #223

hackinthebochs wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself. I fully appreciate this guy being the one carrying the torch for all of us, who have or will be in the future, wronged by Google or any other big corporation where we have no recourse. Hopefully something positive will come of this.

What came of it was that he's violated Google's ToS, as confirmed by a number of employees. It would be nice if he was innocent, but he's not, so the story is meaningless.

In addition to what the person below me said, it's ridiculous that Google offers _no_ form of official support.

So yes, speak for yourself. I appreciate what he's doing as well.

Re: Google Deletes Last 7 Years Of User's Digital Life, Shrugs

#250

Post by blama » Sun, Jul 24, 2011, 6:47 PM UTC

khafra wrote: post #168

Matt_Cutts wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked to the person with this complaint, then looked into it myself. The account was suspended for a violation of our Terms of Service. After digging into the situation, my personal opinion is that Google took appropriate action. I'm sorry that I can't go into more detail.

I'm having a hard time imagining an offense that would justify removing the guy's access to all his data, but not calling the police.

Furthermore, I'm trying to understand why everyone is saying that he should have backed up all of his data. They must be gigantic Google fanboys.

If Google is going to act like they can hold all of your data easily and effectively, why would a normal user back up their data? Would a normal user even know how? I doubt any of my friends would know where to start, or why they even should. After all, Google operates under the pretense of being a reliable service.

And let's get one thing clear: they ARE a reliable service. Up until they deactivate your account.