Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life • Hacker News Board

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#91

Post by iammisc » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 4:20 AM UTC

drew1492 wrote: post #66

iammisc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One single dose of LSD can cause permanent psychosis, so this is not surprising. This is why drugs like LSD need to be absolutely banned. They can turn functioning people into permanently non-functioning ones. It is an incredibly dangerous drug.

This is not true, or partially true at best. As far as I'm aware, current consensus is that psychedelics are not a causative agent in psychosis or schizophrenia in the absence of predisposing risk factors. 0.5-1% of the population will develop schizophrenia, and for these susceptible individuals, a psychedelic trip can be the event that triggers the full-blown disorder. But so can any other significant psychological…

> But even if psychedelics were a causative risk in some mental disorders, shouldn't we as a society entrust adults to determine their own risk tolerance

No, because such allowances are made with the assumption that people act reasonably. GK Chesterton said we should tolerate all thoughts except for the thought that stops thought. We can tolerate all kinds of insane thoughts. The only thought we cannot tolerate is the thought (the will to take LSD for 'fun') that has the potential to stop all thought. LSD, and other psychedelics, cause the breakdown of rationality that is the very reason we allow adults to make their own decisions. It is completely incoherent to allow LSD while also using adult cognitive skills as the basis of adult freedom.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#92

Post by Pokepokalypse » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #84

heavyset_go wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One feature of psychosis and mental illness, in general, is a lack of insight into one's own condition, or the lack of a complete picture into how symptoms impact one's thoughts and behaviors. In psychosis, this very pronounced because many of those who experience psychosis don't know they're experiencing delusions or hallucinations. It's all very real to them. The fact that you have an awareness of your distortions…

Lack of insight to varying degrees is a well-known feature, but not always the case. Having insight doesn't imply at all a lack of symptoms. It's possible to be aware, but not be able to correct errors in real time. Someone with paranoia is highly sensitive to coincidences, and may have great difficulty blocking out elaborate theories regarding them which seem to spontaneously arise, as well as an intense fear reacti…

I suspect that (knowing how paranoid delusions work as I observe in my daughter - and also, how I process anxiety); that the anxiety is often triggered as a physiological reaction, a hormonal signal that physically jacks up your heart-rate, and adrenaline. This sensation is often processed as fear. And our intellectual coping mechanism for fear, is to try to UNDERSTAND it, to figure out if there's any action that should be taken to prevent harm. And in the absence of any apparent rational explanation for the fear, the mind MANUFACTURES a rationalization. Sometimes it's a completely silly nonsense rationalization. But if it relieves the fear somewhat, (not the anxiety), it becomes an adequate coping mechanism. A healthier coping mechanism is when something triggers inside that helps you to realize that what's happening is a physiological reaction, and there's no actual real reason to be anxious. You can still come up with a silly rationalization, but you will realize that it's not real. I think that's the hairline that separates insanity from a person who's just having a hard time coping with an anxiety attack.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#93

Post by t-writescode » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

babyshake wrote: post #86

throwuxiytayq wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself to be a very mentally-stable person, but I have encountered occasional hallucination-like experiences. They're very brief, and my brain seems to correct itself retroactively , which makes them somewhat difficult to notice. For example, a soft noise could be vividly interpreted as someone calling my name, but when it becomes apparent that this didn't happen, my brain files the experience as "probably…

A classic one that many experience is thinking you see someone or something notable or scary in the dark, that turns out to be whatever ordinary thing is actually there.

Is that really a hallucination? Or is it your brain’s pattern recognizer making an incorrect guess and then quickly course-correcting when more data is present?

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#94

Post by perl4ever » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 4:43 AM UTC

Pokepokalypse wrote: post #92

perl4ever wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of insight to varying degrees is a well-known feature, but not always the case. Having insight doesn't imply at all a lack of symptoms. It's possible to be aware, but not be able to correct errors in real time. Someone with paranoia is highly sensitive to coincidences, and may have great difficulty blocking out elaborate theories regarding them which seem to spontaneously arise, as well as an intense fear reacti…

I suspect that (knowing how paranoid delusions work as I observe in my daughter - and also, how I process anxiety); that the anxiety is often triggered as a physiological reaction, a hormonal signal that physically jacks up your heart-rate, and adrenaline. This sensation is often processed as fear. And our intellectual coping mechanism for fear, is to try to UNDERSTAND it, to figure out if there's any action that sho…

>that's the hairline that separates insanity from a person who's just having a hard time coping with an anxiety attack

Ultimately, it's not entirely intrinsic, it depends on extrinsic factors as well.

When someone is intensely fearful, and interacting with someone else, they're susceptible to spiraling feedback loops and misunderstandings.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#95

Post by sweetsocks21 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 4:50 AM UTC

sitharus wrote: post #40

shrimpx wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I close my eyes I see "snow", and yes the same thing with my eyes opened in the dark. But this is normal, no? It seems like seeing pure black is abnormal. There will be some kind of noise on the optic nerve, it's hard to imagine it being hard "off".

Seeing snow when your eyes are closed or in darkness is fairly typical from what I understand. Visual snow as a diagnosis is visible at least in reading-level light and against light backgrounds. I see snow against all colours in a typical office environment. It’s less noticeable in daylight but still there.

I can both see it and "unsee" it. If I'm actively doing something and using my eyes for things I don't notice. But if I'm just sitting listening to music or whatever I can notice the "fuzz" and noise. In low light it's a very fine grain. In daylight it's a coarser pulsing of white and black.

I've always thought this was normal. I've asked a couple other people and they've said they see it too, :shrug:

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#96

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 5:04 AM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #61

ImuMotive wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a world tilting thing maybe once a year. Usually while falling asleep. I also sometimes get this weird perceptual thing where objects look huge, again, normally while in a dark room. I've also had odd sensations that accompany these perceptual changes. All of these occur very rarely. Like I said, maybe twice a year, but closer to once per year. I can't find it now, but I had learned about seizure activity and h…

The distortions while falling asleep is sleep paralysis. There's nothing weird about this. Every once in a while, i'll have this and there's an entity in my room. Once, everything in my room flew and the world 'cracked'. It's just a waking dream. Wiggle your toes, and things will go back to normal. Toes still work when the delusion sets in because it takes time for the hormone that causes bodily paralysis to get to y…

[deleted]

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#97

Post by throwawaycuriou » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

a9h74j wrote: post #59

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always had visual glows when I close my eyes. Not eye floaters, I only see those when my eyes are open. When I close my eye, I usually see an outline of bright/dark somewhat matching what I last saw, but desaturated and splotchy. If I keep my eyes close, the patches kinda drift around. It's kinda fun to watch sometimes but I get bored eventually open my eyes. I've always assumed its my eyes just adjusting to the…

I always remember the term 'eidetic' and always think I am misremembering the correct term, but it is "eidetic imagery" I am searching for. To me this refers to the phenomenon of seeing above-threshold-of-perception patterns or motions, such as lava-like swirling. As you say, such things can be interesting for a time. This following link discusses the phenomenon in terms of phosphenes: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/…

I think I get phosphenes and never had the word for it. I can more or less elicit them on demand by closing my eyes, relax and let them cross slightly. A stroby concentric circle set ensues for a few seconds. Always the same pattern. Red.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#98

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 5:09 AM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #79

perl4ever wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everything feels intellectualized rather than a concrete physical reality I'm not sure what this means, but you might read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization It is said to be a common phenomenon that most people experience at one time or another, and can be associated with a great many conditions or events, from head injuries, to schizophrenia, to drug use.

Yeah that might be it. What I mean is that I don't feel like I'm actually here - everything feels flat and dream like, rather than in the moment planted in a physical space. I thought this was normal though, aren't most people constantly in that state due to worry about the future or obsessing over the past? And that's the point of meditation, I think... To bring yourself into the here and now. I do some regular medi…

[deleted]

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#99

Post by eliasmacpherson » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

tcj_phx wrote: post #51

All this study says is that stressed teenagers who don't know how to cope become stressed adults who don't know how to cope. People display more psychotic attributes when they don't have the resiliency associated with being a teenager. Emotional stress is the primary cause behind "psychotic breaks" and "schizophrenia" (a worthless diagnosis). Stressed brains need more fuel, derived from glucose, b-vitamins, etc. > Th…

Glad to hear your anecdotes and the success story, sounds like hell.

I've found the work of Carl C Pfeiffer interesting, seems to apply to me, histedelia, although pun intended I do take it with a healthy dose of salt. I've seen a lot of professional dismissiveness towards the idea. More recent blog reading material seems to term it as a 'methylation' issue. What I found most 'appealing' about the theory was that he blames the substance abuse on the histadelics personal biology: when intoxicated the histadelic feels 'good' whereas they normally always feel 'terrible'. This is in contrast the average person who feels 'good' sober a lot of the time.

I would 'go nuts' every 18 months like clockwork before making a lot of diet changes after a year of psychosis a few years back. One thing that prevented issues in the past were high levels of physical exercise, so I had a handful of years here and there without issues.

I wouldn't say I'm 100% now but I have more good days than bad. I'll try this levomefolic acid.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#100

Post by porknubbins » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 5:25 AM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #84

heavyset_go wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One feature of psychosis and mental illness, in general, is a lack of insight into one's own condition, or the lack of a complete picture into how symptoms impact one's thoughts and behaviors. In psychosis, this very pronounced because many of those who experience psychosis don't know they're experiencing delusions or hallucinations. It's all very real to them. The fact that you have an awareness of your distortions…

Lack of insight to varying degrees is a well-known feature, but not always the case. Having insight doesn't imply at all a lack of symptoms. It's possible to be aware, but not be able to correct errors in real time. Someone with paranoia is highly sensitive to coincidences, and may have great difficulty blocking out elaborate theories regarding them which seem to spontaneously arise, as well as an intense fear reacti…

I have always wondered why if someone with good logical reasoning skills got schizophrenia they clould not reason their way to seeing their delusions for what they are. For example (real example I heard) if I think everyone who looks at my eyes is from the government and tracking me on my walk to the park- there simply is no agency that could field and coordinate that many undercover agents nor surreptitiously replace all normal people on my route. It seems to me dellusions must involve both imagination and somehow disable logical reasoning for an intelligent person.