Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life • Hacker News Board

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#81

Post by perl4ever » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #43

runawaybottle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are distinct, but the ego’s attempt to rationalize what they are experiencing is often part of the same framework. Paranoia, delusions of grandeur, narcissism, me-against-the-world (victom-playing). Drug abuse, criminality, and to a lesser extent - sheer failure at something, also lead to this framework. I failed this class because the education system sucks , I’m burnt out at work because my company sucks , etc…

You're conflating different things that are unrelated. Symptomatically, personality disorders are basically relational dysfunctions. Some are developed as compensations for barely having an ego at all. They're fairly well documented. The most shocking thing for outsiders is realising how alien they are. People with no knowledge of psychology literally cannot imagine how it's possible for people with these issues to l…

>realising how alien they are

You can't dehumanize someone and claim to understand them simultaneously. It's logically incoherent to draw a conclusion from a failure to understand.

When I try to understand people, I start by assuming that they, like everyone, have an inner self with the golden rule hardwired at a very basic level, and anything appearing to violate that is an illusion creating by coping behavior, distortions in perceptions, or something. Psychic pain being prioritized over everything else can make the resulting behavior very confusing.

Also, since I'm not a professional psychologist I don't have to pretend I understand when I don't.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#82

Post by morpheos137 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #43

runawaybottle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are distinct, but the ego’s attempt to rationalize what they are experiencing is often part of the same framework. Paranoia, delusions of grandeur, narcissism, me-against-the-world (victom-playing). Drug abuse, criminality, and to a lesser extent - sheer failure at something, also lead to this framework. I failed this class because the education system sucks , I’m burnt out at work because my company sucks , etc…

You're conflating different things that are unrelated. Symptomatically, personality disorders are basically relational dysfunctions. Some are developed as compensations for barely having an ego at all. They're fairly well documented. The most shocking thing for outsiders is realising how alien they are. People with no knowledge of psychology literally cannot imagine how it's possible for people with these issues to l…

I don't understand why people think lying is so difficult. It is human nature to lie and manipulate. At least that was how I was brought up. I think people who think that normal is goody two shoes are virtue signalling or decieving themselves. The average person in the world just wants to get ahead. Sometimes prosocial behaviors help with that. Sometimes they don't. It depends on the relative amount of hostility vs cooperativeness in the specific environment.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#83

Post by fakesheriff » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

meowface wrote: post #11

colordrops wrote: post #5

I have always had these distortions throughout my life. I sometimes feel like high-functioning psychotic. I recall the story of that researcher James Fallon that found out he was a psychopath when he scanned his own brain. Everything feels intellectualized rather than a concrete physical reality.

Just because there's a correlation doesn't mean distortions inherently imply psychosis. It's difficult to know your experience just from your brief comment, but it's possible that you may have something like depersonalization-derealization disorder, without any psychosis. Psychosis generally involves delusions and hallucinations. For example: hearing things that aren't real, believing governments or other powerful en…

One of these things is not like the other...

> believing governments or other powerful entities are specifically targeting and watching you

Because that never happens?

> frequently thinking people you see IRL are stalking and following you

Because that never happens?

> hearing things that aren't real

Who decides what's real? Is it not real unless you've got audio?

> thinking you're a divine being or on a divinely-mandated mission

> thinking some external entity or machine is inserting invasive thoughts into your head via photons

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#84

Post by perl4ever » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:21 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #24

colordrops wrote: post #5

I have always had these distortions throughout my life. I sometimes feel like high-functioning psychotic. I recall the story of that researcher James Fallon that found out he was a psychopath when he scanned his own brain. Everything feels intellectualized rather than a concrete physical reality.

One feature of psychosis and mental illness, in general, is a lack of insight into one's own condition, or the lack of a complete picture into how symptoms impact one's thoughts and behaviors. In psychosis, this very pronounced because many of those who experience psychosis don't know they're experiencing delusions or hallucinations. It's all very real to them. The fact that you have an awareness of your distortions…

Lack of insight to varying degrees is a well-known feature, but not always the case.

Having insight doesn't imply at all a lack of symptoms. It's possible to be aware, but not be able to correct errors in real time.

Someone with paranoia is highly sensitive to coincidences, and may have great difficulty blocking out elaborate theories regarding them which seem to spontaneously arise, as well as an intense fear reaction to the possibilities.

Some people can suppress that sort of thing fairly well. The problem is, that's not a solution to impairment, because suppressing patterns will suppress the ones that normal people consider important as well, sometimes.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#85

Post by perl4ever » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #79

perl4ever wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everything feels intellectualized rather than a concrete physical reality I'm not sure what this means, but you might read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization It is said to be a common phenomenon that most people experience at one time or another, and can be associated with a great many conditions or events, from head injuries, to schizophrenia, to drug use.

Yeah that might be it. What I mean is that I don't feel like I'm actually here - everything feels flat and dream like, rather than in the moment planted in a physical space. I thought this was normal though, aren't most people constantly in that state due to worry about the future or obsessing over the past? And that's the point of meditation, I think... To bring yourself into the here and now. I do some regular medi…

>aren't most people constantly in that state due to worry about the future or obsessing over the past

I would think that the alternative that is "in the moment" is social interaction or working on a project.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#86

Post by babyshake » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

throwuxiytayq wrote: post #44

anyfoo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate a bit? I don't remember hallucinating when growing up[1], so I'm interested what this would look like. I don't doubt that it may still be common without everyone experiencing it. [1] Or ever, really, unless fever dreams when being really sick count. Though, without any reference point to compare to, they really seemed more like intense dreams.

I consider myself to be a very mentally-stable person, but I have encountered occasional hallucination-like experiences. They're very brief, and my brain seems to correct itself retroactively , which makes them somewhat difficult to notice. For example, a soft noise could be vividly interpreted as someone calling my name, but when it becomes apparent that this didn't happen, my brain files the experience as "probably…

A classic one that many experience is thinking you see someone or something notable or scary in the dark, that turns out to be whatever ordinary thing is actually there.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#87

Post by scollet » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 3:04 AM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #64

valec wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it's not. best estimates (admittedly poor) put the incidence around 1/50,000 for frequent users. considering the potential mental health uses and the extremely low toxicity (i'm not sure anybody has ever overdosed on lsd) banning psychedelics would be a huge mistake. and > They can turn functioning people into permanently non-functioning ones. It is an incredibly dangerous drug. applies to legal drugs too. alcoho…

One drink of alcohol is unlikely to lead you to become unstable. I don't know about the others. I didn't call for a blanket ban. LSD may have therapeutic uses (other debilitating drugs like paracetamol do), but the self-dosing that people do 'for fun' shouldn't be tolerated.

You called for a blanket ban.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#88

Post by warent » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 3:43 AM UTC

seastonATccs wrote: post #70

I went though Alice In Wonderland syndrome in my mid teens where it would feel like my hands would grow to a massive or super tiny size.

I had this a few times when I was really young, probably around 7 yrs old or so. Super bizarre perception distortions, it was really scary. The bed and my legs would stretch out really far, my fingers would become cartoonishly huge and swollen or tiny. But the worst part by far was the distortion of time, my experience could move in fast-forward, like 10x speed.

I think around after puberty these things stopped happening. The developing brains of children can be so wild. I think it's a temporary form of synesthesia that happens as your synapses are developing and pruning.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#89

Post by Pokepokalypse » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 4:16 AM UTC

meowface wrote: post #11

colordrops wrote: post #5

I have always had these distortions throughout my life. I sometimes feel like high-functioning psychotic. I recall the story of that researcher James Fallon that found out he was a psychopath when he scanned his own brain. Everything feels intellectualized rather than a concrete physical reality.

Just because there's a correlation doesn't mean distortions inherently imply psychosis. It's difficult to know your experience just from your brief comment, but it's possible that you may have something like depersonalization-derealization disorder, without any psychosis. Psychosis generally involves delusions and hallucinations. For example: hearing things that aren't real, believing governments or other powerful en…

That sounds right. My daughter was diagnosed with bipolar, and sometimes when she is 'manic', she has psychotic, paranoid delusions. She was the one who noticed it and decided that it was "wrong", and went to seek treatment. Her delusions were as mundane as; she thought that her friends were all meeting behind her back, planning to ruin her life.

Anyway; psychosis is more of a symptom. Psychopathy, itself, is kind of a category of disorders; where psychosis is a common symptom.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#90

Post by iammisc » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 4:18 AM UTC

scollet wrote: post #87

iammisc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One drink of alcohol is unlikely to lead you to become unstable. I don't know about the others. I didn't call for a blanket ban. LSD may have therapeutic uses (other debilitating drugs like paracetamol do), but the self-dosing that people do 'for fun' shouldn't be tolerated.

You called for a blanket ban.

Sorry, I figured doctor prescriptions were not included. My view is that they should be a controlled substance, the way they are now. You'd have to show amazing cognitive effects for an illness to legalize it for prescription. I don't know the science here though.

By 'absolute ban' I mean they should be controlled, and classified as an illegal drug. This is not something people should self-medicate. Those using without a prescription or worse, distributing, should be jailed.