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Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

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Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#51

Post by snet0 »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #45
ajross wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but that seems to be an impossible claim. In fact there are zero cases ( edit: two people have come by to cite statistics on all-cause death numbers, which aren't responsive here. PLEASE be careful with your numbers, people, those values include folks who died of car accidents and heroin overdoses, etc... ) where the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines are generally believed to have caused death, and 3 (three) deat…

Here is data for Canada. "Up to and including July 16, 2021, a total of 152 deaths were reported after the administration of a vaccine." https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/#a...

The vaccine isn't expected to prevent all-cause mortality, though.

People will die no matter whether they're vaccinated or not, the question is a) will they die because of covid and b) will they die because of the vaccine. Your statistics do not even approach this question.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#52

Post by yeuxardents »

ds206 wrote: post #41
ajross wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but that seems to be an impossible claim. In fact there are zero cases ( edit: two people have come by to cite statistics on all-cause death numbers, which aren't responsive here. PLEASE be careful with your numbers, people, those values include folks who died of car accidents and heroin overdoses, etc... ) where the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines are generally believed to have caused death, and 3 (three) deat…

"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 342 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 26, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,340 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...

Other vaccine trials were shut down immediately with less than 100 deaths. Suddenly we are accepting of THOUSANDS of deaths due to a vaccine, possibly more unreported? Utter Scientific Religion level beliefs going on here.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#53

Post by trainsplanes »

dotcommand wrote: post #26
ajross wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of diseases result in nerve damage. Polio was famous for this, after all. Different viruses infect different tissues. This is why we don't like getting sick, and push vaccines where we can. Infectious diseases that don't have long term effects are actually comparatively few in numbers -- those are the ones we tend to "get sick" with, for the simple reason that they aren't worth the effort of trying to control. T…

> Everyone knew from that first cluster in Wuhan that this was much, much more dangerous. Everyone told you that. Everyone trustworthy, anyway. I hope you find the CDC to be trustworthy because the CDC says on their website that the flu is more dangerous than covid for young people. "For young children, especially children younger than 5 years old, the risk of serious complications is higher for flu compared with COV…

> because the CDC says on their website that the flu is more dangerous than covid for young people.

Depends what you're defining as young people. Under 5 as in those quotes, maybe virtually no risk. But I know otherwise healthy people in their 20s who got sick over a year ago. Their sense of smell and taste is still completely fried with no sign of recovery.

Maybe that can happen with a bad flu sometimes, but it seems way more common with covid. It seems like there's some nerve damage resulting from the virus that we don't yet fully understand.

The vaccine seemed like a safer gamble than potentially forever losing my ability to taste, or worse.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#54

Post by Izkata »

ajross wrote: post #39
wanderingmind wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing that Covid19 is a much more lethal disease, can you point to some reference that compares covid death to flu related death (prior to covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html Worst season in recent memory was 61k deaths among influenza patients. Last year saw 600k americans die of covid. Meanwhile flu fatalities cratered due to the pandemic response. Full data isn't available yet, but this site has some details (e.g. pediatric flu deaths dropped between 37x and 199x -- there was ONE child who died of the flu last year): https://www.cd…

> Worst season in recent memory was 61k deaths among influenza patients. Last year saw 600k americans die of covid.

Those aren't directly comparable because the various flus have been circulating for years/decades and people have died all across that time. While people do have cross-immunity with sars-cov-2 and other coronaviruses, sars-cov-2 is new so it's hitting those decades of people all at once.

The currently estimated IFR across all age groups is around 0.15%, putting it on-par with the flu (something like 0.07% IIRC; this one is hard to pin down because there's a lot of different flus). And in the past few months, cases have spiked without a spike in deaths all over the place, so that 0.15% is probably going to drop more, especially with indications that the Delta variant is more infections but less serious. (That said the effect the past few months could be the effect of the vaccines; it's not clear to me if that's supposed to affect the estimated IFR or that estimation is for a vulnerable population (but I'm not sure how you could estimate a vulnerable population for one that's been around for a while, so I think it does still count))

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#55

Post by NortySpock »

pintofthrowaway wrote: post #35
ajross wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone is vaccinated AND still spreading the virus, is it any different from having an asymthomatic case of COVID? It carries about an order of magnitude lower risk of hospitalization or death, so... yes. Yes, it is very different. We don't know about long term effects, those are, y'know, long term and hard to study in this kind of timeframe. Which is why the linked article is notable. Also note that risk of tr…

It's hard for some of us, myself included. I'm a hospital physician in a suburban American hospital. I don't know a single physician who was even hospitalized with COVID-19. I know two physicians who died from the vaccine, one who bled to death with DIC in my care. I know of another in our area who is permanently disabled with transverse myelitis after the vaccine. I'm not alone, despite what you've heard generally a…

> I know two physicians who died from the vaccine, one who bled to death with DIC in my care. I know of another in our area who is permanently disabled with transverse myelitis after the vaccine.

Do you have a VAERS ID number? Do you have a link to a news report you can share? Not to be dark, but do you have a link to an obituary?

Because it's a little hard to take your claims as anything more than unsourced anecdotes that can be summed up by the CDCs adverse events statistics.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...

I could go looking for trouble in the VAERS database but I think aggregate statistics are better for getting a feel for how safe the vaccine is.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#56

Post by orangecat »

ajross wrote: post #39
wanderingmind wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing that Covid19 is a much more lethal disease, can you point to some reference that compares covid death to flu related death (prior to covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html Worst season in recent memory was 61k deaths among influenza patients. Last year saw 600k americans die of covid. Meanwhile flu fatalities cratered due to the pandemic response. Full data isn't available yet, but this site has some details (e.g. pediatric flu deaths dropped between 37x and 199x -- there was ONE child who died of the flu last year): https://www.cd…

Meanwhile flu fatalities cratered due to the pandemic response.

That's not at all clear. Different areas have had vastly different levels of response to Covid, but the flu disappeared everywhere. So either minimal levels of non-pharmaceutical interventions are sufficient to virtually eradicate the flu, or something else is going on. Viral interference seems likely: https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/31/a-viral-mystery-can-one-...

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#57

Post by ajross »

Izkata wrote: post #47
ajross wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree with you that there are people who cavalierly dismiss the dangers of covid. Don't call it the flu. It's not the flu. It's killed 20x more people than the flu even in the fact of pervasive society-changing mitigation strategies (all while the flu itself has all but gone extinct, remember! All that masking and distance learning actually worked!). It's not the flu. Beyond that, nitpick with my phrasing all you…

> All that masking and distance learning actually worked! Across US states, there is no correlation, let alone causation, between stringency of masks/social distancing/lockdown and outcome.

I'm curious what you're citing here. I've actually seen lots and lots of charts that show the opposite. Are you maybe thinking of some of the non-scientific arguments that included the initial (extremely large) March 2020 outbreak in NYC in the "mask wearing" bucket, despite the fact that almost all those infections occurred before the lockdown?

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#58

Post by BurningFrog »

resource0x wrote: post #19

Quote from https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-79959... "Citing new information about the variant’s ability to spread among vaccinated people , the CDC also recommended indoor masks for all teachers, staff, students and visitors at schools nationwide, regardless of vaccination status." If someone is vaccinated AND still spreading the virus, is it any different from having an asymthomatic case of CO…

Vaccinated people get in contact with the virus as much as the non vaccinated.

The virus invades the bodies and start multiplying in both populations.

The difference is that the vaccinated body is prepared to immediately attack the virus, something that takes weeks for the unvaccinated body to figure out.

So during the short interval when the vaccinated body hasn't yet wiped out the virus, the person is technically infected, will test positive, and can probably transmit some of the few viruses it has.

But that both vaccinated and unvaccinated can transmit the virus does NOT mean the danger levels are anywhere near similar!

This is probably why so many athletes get positive tests. If you get tested every day, you can get a positive test while a minor infection is defeated, even though you don't feel any symptoms.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#59

Post by sonicggg »

resource0x wrote: post #19

Quote from https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-79959... "Citing new information about the variant’s ability to spread among vaccinated people , the CDC also recommended indoor masks for all teachers, staff, students and visitors at schools nationwide, regardless of vaccination status." If someone is vaccinated AND still spreading the virus, is it any different from having an asymthomatic case of CO…

That's a great question. Another interesting one is whether these vaccines are preventing cases of Long Covid. I feel World leaders are conveniently being quiet about these questions, and focusing too much on the drop of death counts only. It's an attempt to rush and re-open the economy at any cost.

Re: Brain imaging before and after Covid-19 in UK Biobank

#60

Post by sonicggg »

gotoeleven wrote: post #8
teorema wrote: post #3

This sort of thing is one of the more disturbing things to me about COVID-19, and why I wish there was a less exclusive focus on death in talking about the pandemic. Clearly that's important but there's these hugely significant problems not captured by focusing solely on death.

Is there some reason to expect that covid-19 is different in long term effects than a flu? This study is saying it causes substantial brain damage, right? What possible mechanism is there for this?

Of course there is. Sars-Cov-2 has been labelled by one paper as "The Autoimmune Virus" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7598743).

There's way more molecular mimicry between this virus and our tissues than any flu virus. This is a recipe for long term autoimmune diseases.

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