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I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

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Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#451

Post by Zanneth »

jasondclinton wrote: post #144
vinni2 wrote: post #112

One thing I noticed is that while more experienced people are productive working from home, it is devastating for fresh starting employees. Work from home eliminates learning through osmosis. If anyone has a work around this let me know. I am surprised no one else has mentioned it here.

The solution is obvious: structured training and mentoring. When the pandemic hit, I was hiring a team of 5 new engineers. What was I going to do? Throw up my hands? I implemented a weekly technical training program that morphed into the 250 person org official onboarding. Weekly, I literally just get someone on a VC for 30 minutes and record having a conversation about a technical topic at a noobie level. 16 months…

The fact that you put work into the problem is admirable. However, I will say that from personal experience, I find it significantly less engaging to watch online training videos.

As a junior, the most rewarding learning experiences I have had in my career took place during off-topic discussions at the desk of an engineer who was way smarter than me.

Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#452

Post by Dylan16807 »

tshaddox wrote: post #450
Dylan16807 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're typing all these comments with no keyboard ( why?? ), then I think your work experience, with getting your fill there, isn't the most typical. And there's been a decrease in desktops, but far more households have a desktop/laptop than a tablet and it's not far behind the rate of having broadband.

We're probably both just swapping anecdotes, but I suspect you might be surprised just how many general computer users overwhelmingly use their smartphones for nearly everything. I remember years ago being confused by the steady and swift increase in smartphone screen size. Why in the world would people want the little communication gadget in their pocket to be larger ? The reason, I realized, is that it's not "the c…

I'm not working off anecdotes. It's 78% of people that have a desktop or laptop at home. Households that only have a phone or tablet as a computer are only 14%.

Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#453

Post by tshaddox »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #436
RHSeeger wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desk, monitors, keyboard, mouse, external hard drive, and other things that go on a desk. I'm certainly not going to tear all that down every evening and set it back up every day. Plus a separate office means a door to keep out noise, room for bookshelves and other office items, and the ability to just "put things down" without having to spend time cleaning off the kitchen table before dinner. Any setup other than ha…

> Desk, monitors, keyboard, mouse, external hard drive, and other things that go on a desk. I'm certainly not going to tear all that down every evening and set it back up every day. At worst that's still only a desk of space wasted. And if you're willing to commute, you should probably be willing to spend 2 minutes putting all that stuff away. If you still decide not to, then it's because that space isn't needed very…

That’s still aligned with my point. Either you pay rent for an additional separate office (lots of money), or you reduce your existing living space to make room for work stuff. The only case where you don’t notice is this is when you just so happened to already have completely unused living space that you don’t mind filling up with work stuff, or you just so happened to have an office setup at home that overlaps perfectly with what you need for work.

Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#454

Post by tshaddox »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #452
tshaddox wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're probably both just swapping anecdotes, but I suspect you might be surprised just how many general computer users overwhelmingly use their smartphones for nearly everything. I remember years ago being confused by the steady and swift increase in smartphone screen size. Why in the world would people want the little communication gadget in their pocket to be larger ? The reason, I realized, is that it's not "the c…

I'm not working off anecdotes. It's 78% of people that have a desktop or laptop at home. Households that only have a phone or tablet as a computer are only 14%.

Laptop is a different story, because of the whole lap top thing.

Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#455

Post by Dylan16807 »

tshaddox wrote: post #454
Dylan16807 wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not working off anecdotes. It's 78% of people that have a desktop or laptop at home. Households that only have a phone or tablet as a computer are only 14%.

Laptop is a different story, because of the whole lap top thing.

If your laptop is comfortable to use that way, then you can work on it that way.

Or just put it on a table.

I don't see any need to distinguish between desktops and laptops for working from home. Laptops have built-in webcams too.

Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#456

Post by Dylan16807 »

tshaddox wrote: post #453
Dylan16807 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Desk, monitors, keyboard, mouse, external hard drive, and other things that go on a desk. I'm certainly not going to tear all that down every evening and set it back up every day. At worst that's still only a desk of space wasted. And if you're willing to commute, you should probably be willing to spend 2 minutes putting all that stuff away. If you still decide not to, then it's because that space isn't needed very…

That’s still aligned with my point. Either you pay rent for an additional separate office (lots of money), or you reduce your existing living space to make room for work stuff. The only case where you don’t notice is this is when you just so happened to already have completely unused living space that you don’t mind filling up with work stuff, or you just so happened to have an office setup at home that overlaps perf…

> That’s still aligned with my point. Either you pay rent for an additional separate office (lots of money), or you reduce your existing living space to make room for work stuff.

Yes, but the reduction for a desk is only if you don't have another usable surface, and even then it's only a tenth of "lots of money" because a desk is so much smaller than a room.

A tenth of lots of money is not all that much, and very likely cheaper than commuting.

Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#457

Post by brailsafe »

brailsafe wrote: post #232
ohhnoodont wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may just be my experience as a young person in San Francisco / Silicon Valley, but it's very common for office life and social life to be highly intertwined. I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. Many of us moved here and joined competitive, demanding companies. People bond in these situations. I really look forward to being back in the office and having a significant part of my social life return. Don't…

It is a bad thing, for the reason you just eluded to. Your work goes away for any reason, and so does your social life. This is why many of my friends haven't made any real friends since highschool

alluded*

Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#458

Post by RHSeeger »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #456
tshaddox wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s still aligned with my point. Either you pay rent for an additional separate office (lots of money), or you reduce your existing living space to make room for work stuff. The only case where you don’t notice is this is when you just so happened to already have completely unused living space that you don’t mind filling up with work stuff, or you just so happened to have an office setup at home that overlaps perf…

> That’s still aligned with my point. Either you pay rent for an additional separate office (lots of money), or you reduce your existing living space to make room for work stuff. Yes, but the reduction for a desk is only if you don't have another usable surface, and even then it's only a tenth of "lots of money" because a desk is so much smaller than a room. A tenth of lots of money is not all that much, and very lik…

I think part of the disconnect is that (it appears that) for you, a suitable work from home environment is

- a 2'x3' area on a table, anywhere in the place you live

For a lot of us (at least for me and some others), a suitable work from home environment includes

- a 4'x3' desk (or larger, for multiple monitors)

- a door or other way to separate the workspace from house interruptions (and vice versa)

- a bookshelf and other miscellaneous items

- good lighting

In general, all that ^ is necessary to be as effective as one would be at an actual office, and generally means a separate room in the house/apartment; and that is fairly costly. The last time I did the calculations, it came out to several thousands of dollars per year.

Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#459

Post by jasondclinton »

binbag wrote: post #447
jasondclinton wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is obvious: structured training and mentoring. When the pandemic hit, I was hiring a team of 5 new engineers. What was I going to do? Throw up my hands? I implemented a weekly technical training program that morphed into the 250 person org official onboarding. Weekly, I literally just get someone on a VC for 30 minutes and record having a conversation about a technical topic at a noobie level. 16 months…

You're missing the point though, which is that people need time with people to learn. Watching videos isn't enough. What happens when they have questions and need to have a conversation?

How am I missing the point with a comprehensive training program that explicitly allows people to continuously engage with their mentor and have face time?

Re: I went to the office for the first time. I fucking hated it

#460

Post by tshaddox »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #455
tshaddox wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptop is a different story, because of the whole lap top thing.

If your laptop is comfortable to use that way, then you can work on it that way. Or just put it on a table. I don't see any need to distinguish between desktops and laptops for working from home. Laptops have built-in webcams too.

It sounds like your office setup is much much more minimal than mine too then. Obviously you’re very fortunate if you’re fine working 8+ hours a day on a laptop on your dining table.
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