Live data from Hacker News

Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

binghamton.edu

51–60 of 138 posts

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#51
All this study says is that stressed teenagers who don't know how to cope become stressed adults who don't know how to cope. People display more psychotic attributes when they don't have the resiliency associated with being a teenager. Emotional stress is the primary cause behind "psychotic breaks" and "schizophrenia" (a worthless diagnosis). Stressed brains need more fuel, derived from glucose, b-vitamins, etc.

> The precise causes of illnesses such as schizophrenia are largely unknown, although genetics and brain-based factors are known to play an essential role.

My understanding is Psychosis is basically a metabolic disorder: people become psychotic when their brain runs out of fuel.

When I first met my friend who taught me about "mental illness", I thought she was 'high as a kite'. As the months went on, I noticed she was most chatty ("psychotic") when she was using crack cocaine. I didn't know about the term "psychosis" at the time, or that cocaine shreds the mitochondria [2][3]. When the effects of cocaine wore off, she was basically normal. When we ate well, she did pretty well. It wasn't until she ran out of alcohol that she became profoundly psychotic.

The involuntary doctors said, essentially, 'Patient expects us to believe that she was psychotic because she was drinking 2 bottles of liquor a day, and using cocaine. We know that this is not the case because we previously got her stabilized on medicine 5 years ago and 7 years ago. After those year-long orders for treatment she discontinued services. Here it is, 4 years later and she's back in the mental hospital. She's clearly been psychotic this whole time.'

I read that one of the problems of psychiatry is that they usually see people when they're at their worst, thereby missing that they were mostly functional just before they fell apart.

One of the early nutritional treatments for schizophrenia was Niacin. Psychiatrists who think in terms of drugs managed to torpedo this line of research, so our doctors tend to not think in terms of physiology. But the research is still being done:

Two-decade-long study links lack of vitamin B3 to schizophrenia among Indians - https://researchmatters.in/news/two-decade-long-study-links-...

Successful treatment of schizophrenia requires optimal daily doses of vitamin B3 - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19238764/

Nutrition, NAD and exercise: vitamin B3 supplements to stay fit and healthy? - https://www.endocrinology.org/endocrinologist/135-spring20/f...

My friend eventually figured out that she's a poor methylator whose genetics are such that she can't turn folic acid (a shelf-stable provitamin B-9 used to fortify foods) into L-Methyl-Folate. (My previous comments said the treatment providers ran this test [1][2]. She later corrected me: new clients at the treatment center were getting their cheeks swabbed, she wanted to be swabbed too. The test came back that she needed methylated B-9. She'd previously said it was like flipping a switch from 'depressed' to 'not-depressed'.) But the doctors kept her on tranquilizers anyways.

Just last month she convinced her doctors to take her off tranquilizers. What's wrong with Psychiatry, that they think people become broken and require palliative treatments for the rest of their lives? Do any of you have any insights?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23859585

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15591378

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22132272

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#52
I always wonder with these sorts of things, is it the person who is 'wrong' or it the society?

Perhaps the society has too narrow a definition of 'normal', or perhaps the society we experience causes these issues (overcrowding, poor food+water, stress), etc.

I also wonder whether 'mental illness' is a field where you can literally create illnesses in order to then treat them.

Obviously, there are some genuine mental issues - I just don't think we are able to ascribe causality correctly, when the only ones trying to 'treat' the issue are the same parties that stand to make financial gains.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#53
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychosis and psychopathy are distinct, for what it's worth.

The article seems to treat psychosis, psychotic symptoms, and Schizophrenia as though they all refer to the same thing.

Psychopathy isn't a medical diagnosis but it generally refers to antisocial personality disorder, which doesn't include psychosis in its diagnosis criteria.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating different things that are unrelated. Symptomatically, personality disorders are basically relational dysfunctions. Some are developed as compensations for barely having an ego at all. They're fairly well documented. The most shocking thing for outsiders is realising how alien they are. People with no knowledge of psychology literally cannot imagine how it's possible for people with these issues to l…

So, what are you implying, that shrinks know exactly who is off their rocker within a few sessions?

No, they seem to be implying that your armchair analysis that seems to boil down to "everything is part of the same framework" is simplistic at best.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#56
The British Psychological Society produced a report[1] in 2014 or so from the perspective that specific symptoms can be found in populations on a spectrum, and significant in terms of treatment is the question: Do these cause distress?

Looking for a link I found this[2] article in response, which contributes mightily to a back-and-forth. It is a longer read, but worth it.

[1] https://www.bps.org.uk/what-psychology/understanding-psychos... (YMMV getting past GDPR consents at that link; a second try worked for me.)

[2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/saving-normal/201412...

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#57
post #3

This is a bit disturbing to read as someone who had perceptual distortions in my late teens. I always attributed it to HPPD after using LSD around 15 years old. Now I'm not so sure.

I get a world tilting thing maybe once a year. Usually while falling asleep. I also sometimes get this weird perceptual thing where objects look huge, again, normally while in a dark room. I've also had odd sensations that accompany these perceptual changes. All of these occur very rarely. Like I said, maybe twice a year, but closer to once per year. I can't find it now, but I had learned about seizure activity and h…

[deleted]

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#58
post #51

All this study says is that stressed teenagers who don't know how to cope become stressed adults who don't know how to cope. People display more psychotic attributes when they don't have the resiliency associated with being a teenager. Emotional stress is the primary cause behind "psychotic breaks" and "schizophrenia" (a worthless diagnosis). Stressed brains need more fuel, derived from glucose, b-vitamins, etc. > Th…

My insight is that psychiatrists, and most doctors, are themselves mentally ill. The vast majority think too highly of themselves. Many think so highly of themselves they do not listen to patients because they view them as less capable. The moment something escapes their understanding, it is labeled as a disease. It's almost the way the ancients would make up gods to explain phenomena they could not explain.

IMO, schizophrenia is a great example of this. My uncle is schizophrenic, and doctors (and some in my own family) accuse him of not making sense when he talks. But he makes perfect sense, if you pay attention. Most people are just not smart enough and don't pay attention and aren't interested. Doctors especially pretend that since they don't understand him, he's certainly crazy.

I'm not saying my uncle's easy. He's not, and he needs to be 'treated' (i.e., managed specially so he doesn't go off the deep end and become so self-isolated he convinces himself he needs to stab someone), but it's unclear to me whether he's sick (i.e., has some chemical dysfunction or biological dysfunction) or whether he's just reacting in the normal human way to the pressures of life and his own experiences.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing snow when your eyes are closed or in darkness is fairly typical from what I understand. Visual snow as a diagnosis is visible at least in reading-level light and against light backgrounds. I see snow against all colours in a typical office environment. It’s less noticeable in daylight but still there.

I've always had visual glows when I close my eyes. Not eye floaters, I only see those when my eyes are open. When I close my eye, I usually see an outline of bright/dark somewhat matching what I last saw, but desaturated and splotchy. If I keep my eyes close, the patches kinda drift around. It's kinda fun to watch sometimes but I get bored eventually open my eyes. I've always assumed its my eyes just adjusting to the…

I always remember the term 'eidetic' and always think I am misremembering the correct term, but it is "eidetic imagery" I am searching for. To me this refers to the phenomenon of seeing above-threshold-of-perception patterns or motions, such as lava-like swirling. As you say, such things can be interesting for a time.

This following link discusses the phenomenon in terms of phosphenes:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-do-i-see-patterns-when-i-...

Arguably, there have been spiritual movements fueled by relative ignorace around these things, with gurus allegedly claiming that they enable these unexpected experiences for their disciples.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#60
post #3

This is a bit disturbing to read as someone who had perceptual distortions in my late teens. I always attributed it to HPPD after using LSD around 15 years old. Now I'm not so sure.

One single dose of LSD can cause permanent psychosis, so this is not surprising. This is why drugs like LSD need to be absolutely banned. They can turn functioning people into permanently non-functioning ones. It is an incredibly dangerous drug.
Post reply on HN